Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Was Ennis foolin when he threatened Jack?
vkm91941:
--- Quote from: Ellemeno on April 27, 2006, 03:29:18 am ---The only thing I can add to what's been said is that it always seems to me that part of what Ennis is doing there is making clear that even now, he is aligning himself with the homophobes and not with the homosexual. It's what he got taught - when you find out that someone has had sex with a man, you kill them. He could somehow torque it inside of himself that he himself ain't queer, so that doesn't count. But if Jack has sex with another man, well that is queer, and thus a killable offense.
It's almost like he says it out loud pro forma, for any homophobes who might be listening, just like when on the mountain he leans back to watch Jack ride away, and then quickly catches himself and LOOKS AROUND, to see if anyone else has noticed that he was watching another guy. He carries his homophobic lynch mob with him everywhere he goes, even way out in the middle of nowhere.
--- End quote ---
Excellent insights Clarissa I especially like that last line..it is so descriptive of the place Ennis inhabits inside his own head.
JCinNYC2006:
--- Quote from: Ellemeno on April 27, 2006, 03:29:18 am ---The only thing I can add to what's been said is that it always seems to me that part of what Ennis is doing there is making clear that even now, he is aligning himself with the homophobes and not with the homosexual. It's what he got taught - when you find out that someone has had sex with a man, you kill them. He could somehow torque it inside of himself that he himself ain't queer, so that doesn't count. But if Jack has sex with another man, well that is queer, and thus a killable offense.
It's almost like he says it out loud pro forma, for any homophobes who might be listening, just like when on the mountain he leans back to watch Jack ride away, and then quickly catches himself and LOOKS AROUND, to see if anyone else has noticed that he was watching another guy. He carries his homophobic lynch mob with him everywhere he goes, even way out in the middle of nowhere.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, excellent points. I think Ennis has very mixed feelings about Jack and about his sexuality. It's like with the line, 'It's cuz of you I'm like this', which I'm sure has also been dissected in some thread, I think Ennis has some anger and resentment towards Jack for 'bringing out' his feelings for him, and in a way, putting them both in danger (in Ennis' mind). Even if he would never have followed through, his threatening Jack for being with another guy, which to him would be a betrayal, is not unlike how heterosexual men threaten their wives if they were to leave them. And sadly, many women do get killed when they leave an abusive relationship.
I'm definitely not saying that Ennis and Jack have an abusive relationship. But another thing that saddens me about Ennis is how often he's seen at a table with five or six empty beer bottles. The power of his character, for me, is how pained he is and how he struggles to deal with his life, and I think what draws people to be so empathic with him. I know there are times when I can so relate to him.
Juan
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: Ellemeno on April 27, 2006, 03:29:18 am ---The only thing I can add to what's been said is that it always seems to me that part of what Ennis is doing there is making clear that even now, he is aligning himself with the homophobes and not with the homosexual. It's what he got taught - when you find out that someone has had sex with a man, you kill them. He could somehow torque it inside of himself that he himself ain't queer, so that doesn't count. But if Jack has sex with another man, well that is queer, and thus a killable offense.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for saying that, Clarissa, in particular, "He could somehow torque it inside of himself that he himself ain't queer, so that doesn't count." While I do believe that Ennis is jealous of the idea of Jack having sex with other guys, I've been convinced for months that the intensity of Ennis's reaction to Jack's revelation is rooted in his own internalized homophobia.
sparkle_motion:
I have to disagree with the current point being made. This was brought up a few months ago on IMDb. Some people made the point that after 20 years, Ennis realized that he was homosexual but I disagree with that point as well.
Ennis still denied to himself and others that he was homosexual, even after 20 years.
However, when he made that particular comment about killing Jack, I think it was made purely out of jealousy.
serious crayons:
I have argued about this before, notably with Jeff, who made some persuasive points. My own position on the gauge -- pure jealousy on one end and pure homophobia on the other -- has always hovered closer to the jealousy end. But I'll have to say, Clarissa, that your vivid image of an internal lynch mob nudged it a notch or two toward the homophobia end.
Still, I think Ennis' primary emotions here are anger and fear, in reaction to Jack's grim manner and ominous past-tense "I did, ONCE," and his suspicion that Jack already has been unfaithful and may be slipping away altogether. And as we all know, when Ennis feels overwhelmed by scary emotions his impulse is to try to control them with violence. (Speaking of good images, I love Anthony Lane's phrase that Ennis acts as if "the only option for the unrequited is to waylay one's own heart and beat it senseless.")
When Ennis says "boys like you," it suggests to me that he already has at least partly acknowledged what kind of boy Jack is, if not by extension himself. He doesn't say he'd kill Jack because he IS a boy like that, he says he would kill Jack if he personally were to be made aware of his specific boyish activities. As to what Ennis thinks HE is, you'd think he'd have noticed at some point that he finds men more attractive than women, and that if he was able to suppress that feeling when he was 19, over the next 20 years that realization would at least give him pause.
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