Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
What would it take to help Ennis be OK about himself?
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: Clyde-B on June 08, 2007, 08:42:35 am ---I wonder if she calls him OMT! :laugh:
--- End quote ---
I always felt we should change that abbreviation to MOMT, MeanOldManTwist
Fran:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on June 08, 2007, 08:55:31 am ---I always felt we should change that abbreviation to MOMT, MeanOldManTwist
--- End quote ---
Well, we can probably come up with a more descriptive word than "Mean." But "Mean" is moving in the right direction. :)
FOMT?
malina:
ohhh... what a great thread. Reminds me of what it used to be like on IMDB in the good old days...
now... about OMT... Well, essentially, I agree with Katherine on that one. I certainly don't like OMT or want to exonerate him of being... well, a prick... and that hawking-in-the-coffee-cup thing alone, besides being ...well, gross.... is sort of a shorthand for disdain and dismissiveness and contempt, BUT... no, we don't see any overt signs of homophobia from him. And we do see signs to the contrary.. besides the fact that Jack wanted to bring Ennis there, and OMT would have allowed or even wanted that to happen... well, that may be self-serving, but it doesn't seem homophobic.
Even more telling, possibly, is Jack himself. Unlike Ennis, Jack IS pretty much okay about himself - about his homosexuality - even to the point of truly believing that the 'sweet life' was possible for them - even to the point of being able to look Aguirre in the eye when he says his bit about their 'stemming the rose'. Jack is okay about himself... more or less... despite the society he lives in ... and that in itself is odd enough that we have to ask WHY?
Considering that quality in Jack always makes me think about the Fisher King/ Parceval legend. Basically, Parceval heals the Fisher King, who had been suffering from a 'wound that never heals'... oh, there are a lot of associations there but OT for this thread... and he is able to do so because... he is innocent and sort of "not of this world". He was raised by his mother away from society, away from community... so he is like a breath of fresh air, and can see things differently and do what no one else could.
And I think Jack is a bit like that. And I had always assumed it was because, like Parceval, he was raised by his mother away from society.. and his mother seems loving and accepting. BUT, with a homophobic father, what chance would Jack have had, of being accepting of himself?
so... what's that expression? The proof of the pudding is in the ... um... anyway, maybe the proof of OMT's relative freedom from homophobia is in the way his son turned out. Not just gay, I mean, but.. able to be accepting. But that certainly doesn't mean OMT wasn't a prick in other ways or that he and Jack had a good relationship.
I also think that we see so relatively little of OMT, that it's like shorthand.. or speed reading. We are meant to fill in the blanks, and it's easy enough to fill them in with what we know of the society, and see him as homophobic. But, considering what and whom we DO know - Jack - maybe it's possible to fill in those blanks differently.
There's so much more here that's interesting, though... you know, lately, I can't stop thinking about 'the sweet life', and what that actually meant. The long and the short of it, I think, is that the 'sweet life' in a broader sense is a life lived without fear - or, at least, without decisions that are based on fear. And, this is very simplistic, but I think that's related to why Ennis wasn't okay about himself. He made and lived with decisions that were based on fear. I know that's more an effect than a cause of what ailed him, but, maybe it works both ways. Maybe both kinds of living are self-perpetuating.
But what about Jack? He wants the sweet life... he can see it in front of him... but I can't help thinking that his acceptance... his okay-ness with himself, his ability to live without fear.. those things erode and diminish over time. And most of Jack's ideas never come to pass. And OMT seems disappointed. dismissive? disparaging? disappointed.
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: malina on June 09, 2007, 04:54:24 am ---ohhh... what a great thread. Reminds me of what it used to be like on IMDB in the good old days...
now... about OMT... Well, essentially, I agree with Katherine on that one. I certainly don't like OMT or want to exonerate him of being... well, a prick... and that hawking-in-the-coffee-cup thing alone, besides being ...well, gross.... is sort of a shorthand for disdain and dismissiveness and contempt, BUT... no, we don't see any overt signs of homophobia from him. And we do see signs to the contrary.. besides the fact that Jack wanted to bring Ennis there, and OMT would have allowed or even wanted that to happen... well, that may be self-serving, but it doesn't seem homophobic.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you and Katherine about OMT not being outright homophoboc. And I think Katherine has a very good point in saying that it's at least intersting, that Ang Lee doesn't show him homophobic. Believing Lee did everything in his movie for a reason, I find this fact not only intersting, but very telling.
--- Quote ---Even more telling, possibly, is Jack himself. Unlike Ennis, Jack IS pretty much okay about himself - about his homosexuality - even to the point of truly believing that the 'sweet life' was possible for them - even to the point of being able to look Aguirre in the eye when he says his bit about their 'stemming the rose'. Jack is okay about himself... more or less... despite the society he lives in ... and that in itself is odd enough that we have to ask WHY?
--- End quote ---
Of course we ask why. How is it possible that Jack escaped from a lonley childhood with an abusive parent he could never please and being okay? It's not only odd that Jack is relatively okay about his sexuality, but it is almost a miracle that he has any self-esteem at all. Let alone that he is such an optimistic, loving and open man as he is.
Of course Mrs. Twist must have played an important role in this. But: when Jack's immanent nature/given character and the support of his mom were enough to get him through a horrible childhood and let him turn out okay, couldn't it be that the same facts (Jack's character and his mom) were enough to make him be okay with his sexuality even if OMT were a homphobe?
I think yes, and therefore I think that Jack being okay with his homosexuality is not a proof for OMT being not homophobic.
serious crayons:
Malina, it is so great to have you posting here! And not just when you say things like
--- Quote from: malina on June 09, 2007, 04:54:24 am ---essentially, I agree with Katherine on that one.
--- End quote ---
:laugh: but especially when you write things like
--- Quote ---Considering that quality in Jack always makes me think about the Fisher King/ Parceval legend. Basically, Parceval heals the Fisher King, who had been suffering from a 'wound that never heals'... oh, there are a lot of associations there but OT for this thread... and he is able to do so because... he is innocent and sort of "not of this world". He was raised by his mother away from society, away from community... so he is like a breath of fresh air, and can see things differently and do what no one else could.
--- End quote ---
I would love to have people here see your "phallic Jungian tangle" thread. I could post a link to it (in fact, I may have done so back when it first appeared!?) but maybe I'll ask TOoP/Bruce if he could repost it, if that's OK with you?
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