Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
what's the point of the job switch?
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 01, 2006, 11:07:09 pm ---Personally I'd go so far as to say I feel it can be more "manly" "to receive" rather than "to give," but it's Ennis whose been the subject of the discussion, and for a self-deceiving internalized homophobe who clings like a drowning man to his own notion of his "straightness," I can't believe versatility is in the picture.
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There's no doubt in my mind that you are right on the whole Jeff, and I was fully keeping Ennis in mind when I was thinking of his "versitility". So much of this discussion is centred on our projected thoughts and experiences, applying them to Ennis like a white-wash and calling it a complete work of art. I agree that Ennis' homophobia would dominate much of what he thought was ok and not ok. But as someone here also said, they couldn't imagine someone as homophobic as Ennis even giving head. Isn't this the whole point though? Everything about Ennis' external appearance is straight except when he is with Jack. Only with Jack do all the "rules" no longer apply. And we're talking about a 20 year affair here. I also find it hard to believe that Ennis remained on top all those years, even for one so stoic.
TJ:
Oh, I think that Ennis was a "submissive top" on occasion. And, from the way that I read, meaning continue to read, what Annie Proulx wrote in the Motel Siesta scene, when the guys finally get to talking, Jack had just topped Ennis with Ennis riding on the "the horse," --<<< that is from Jack's comment about riding horseback so much.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 01, 2006, 11:43:20 pm ---I agree that Ennis' homophobia would dominate much of what he thought was ok and not ok. But as someone here also said, they couldn't imagine someone as homophobic as Ennis even giving head. Isn't this the whole point though? Everything about Ennis' external appearance is straight except when he is with Jack. Only with Jack do all the "rules" no longer apply. And we're talking about a 20 year affair here.
--- End quote ---
Chris, this opinion is the one I had going into this discussion: that it's hard to predict exactly WHAT Ennis might do or not do because the very fact that he's having sex with a man is so foreign for him in the first place. To say he would never in a million years switch positions -- well, he never in a million years would have done ANY of this if it weren't for Jack (note in case this is unclear: I'm not saying Ennis wouldn't still be gay without Jack, only that he probably never would have acted on it), so how can you draw a line? He's already breaking his own taboos left and right.
Anyway, I'm glad to see there's some diversity of viewpoints even among the experts. Jeff, I understand what you're saying and it makes perfect sense, too. All I was hoping for was support for the contention that there's at least a bit of room for disagreement.
One argument I often see that I DO object to, though, is one that goes something like, Well, we all know Ennis is homophobic so therefore he would never do this or that or, Ennis wouldn't be able to handle it if he knew Jack were doing this or that. What goes on in Ennis' mind for 20 years seems very nebulous to me. Clearly there's both a homophobic side and a loving Jack side, but how those opposing feelings coexist is a matter of pure conjecture. My view is that for most of the time he is able to compartmentalize these emotions, acknowleging each individually but not allowing himself to examine the contradiction too closely, and so manages to keep them in a tenuous balance. But that causes a lot of stress. His "I can't stand it no more" in the final argument is him finally breaking down under the strain.
That's one reason I also don't buy the argument that Ennis realizes he loves Jack only after Jack is dead. If he didn't know he loved him, the balance would have fallen apart long ago. What would keep the homophobia in check? Why would he go to all that risk and bother for all those years?
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 02, 2006, 12:49:13 am ---Chris, this opinion is the one I had going into this discussion: that it's hard to predict exactly WHAT Ennis might do or not do because the very fact that he's having sex with a man is so foreign for him in the first place. To say he would never in a million years switch positions -- well, he never in a million years would have done ANY of this if it weren't for Jack (note in case this is unclear: I'm not saying Ennis wouldn't still be gay without Jack, only that he probably never would have acted on it), so how can you draw a line? He's already breaking his own taboos left and right.
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*Sigh* So I was slow off the mark... again!
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: lnicoll on May 01, 2006, 11:13:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 01, 2006, 11:07:09 pm ---
And there are lots of ways to spice things up, even if each partner always takes the same role--and trust gay men to find them! ;)
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But can we agree that gay men have not cornered the market on this? I think *all* people have the potential to spice things up...trouble is, way too many don't bother or have other reasons for not figuring it out....
L
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I won't dispute the point, I'm just not equipped to comment on something I have no experience of. :)
And looking back over my own last post, it would have more accurately conveyed what I was trying to say to have written, "Ennis is a lot like these men," rather than, "these men are a lot like Ennis."
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