Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
what's the point of the job switch?
TJ:
I spent one year tour of duty in Vietnam and I worked as a clerk-typist and also a bailiff for courts-martials in the Staff Judge Advocate Section with Army Lawyers as my bosses. In the US military what Ennis said could have been understood that Ennis threatened to kill Jack.
But, in the US civilian courts, what Ennis said in what I quoted was not even considered a threat to kill Jack at all. That's because Ennis did not say "What I don't know, all them things I don't know, I will kill you if I should come to know them."
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 09, 2006, 11:29:08 pm ---Now when Jack challenges him back and Ennis breaks down, then I think we can entertain the idea that Ennis feared losing Jack, but even then, I think he's more worried about his own feeling of being "nothing and no-where", and it's because of Jack that he is that way.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for your nice support of my interpretation, Chris! Even if it's partial. Here's my take on the "nothin and nowhere" line: He doesn't mean it. That is, he doesn't mean it literally -- you have to read between the lines to get his real meaning. That is, "Why don't you then? Why don't you let me be (even though I'd be miserable)? It's because of (the fact that I'm in love with) you I'm like this. I'm nothing, nowhere (poor because of my years of quitting jobs to be with you, divorced because I couldn't love my wife, dating another woman but without any enthusiam -- but worst of all, stuck in an impossible situation that can't be fixed and so ...) I can't stand it no more, Jack."
I can imagine that from your perspectives, Chris and Jeff, that this reading seems to assume a lot. But I'm convinced that's basically what he means. You can never take things at face value with Ennis -- a guy who expresses love with a punch.
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: TJ on May 09, 2006, 11:47:32 pm ---I spent one year tour of duty in Vietnam and I worked as a clerk-typist and also a bailiff for courts-martials in the Staff Judge Advocate Section with Army Lawyers as my bosses. In the US military what Ennis said could have been understood that Ennis threatened to kill Jack.
But, in the US civilian courts, what Ennis said in what I quoted was not even considered a threat to kill Jack at all. That's because Ennis did not say "What I don't know, all them things I don't know, I will kill you if I should come to know them."
--- End quote ---
Huh? I am really struggling to understand you TJ. So this is what Ennis actually said:
"What I don't know, all them things I don't know, could get you killed if I come to know them".
and you're saying that because he didn't say:
"What I don't know, all them things I don't know, I will kill you if I should come to know them."
means that he wasn't actually threatening him, unless he was in the military?!?!
TJ:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 10, 2006, 12:52:48 am ---Huh? I am really struggling to understand you TJ. So this is what Ennis actually said:
"What I don't know, all them things I don't know, could get you killed if I come to know them".
and you're saying that because he didn't say:
"What I don't know, all them things I don't know, I will kill you if I should come to know them."
means that he wasn't actually threatening him, unless he was in the military?!?!
--- End quote ---
No, I am making the comparison here because Ennis did not literally say that he would kill Jack if he found out certain things as a direct threat. He was saying that Jack's life could be threatened if he did certain things and someone else killed him for doing them. That's also why Ennis assumed that Jack was killed with "the tire iron" when Lureen coldly told Ennis what happened on the phone and why he also assumed it when he heard Mr. Twist make a reference about that (unnamed) rancher friend of Jack's in Texas.
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 10, 2006, 12:48:39 am ---Thanks for your nice support of my interpretation, Chris! Even if it's partial. Here's my take on the "nothin and nowhere" line: He doesn't mean it. That is, he doesn't mean it literally -- you have to read between the lines to get his real meaning. That is, "Why don't you then? Why don't you let me be (even though I'd be miserable)? It's because of (the fact that I'm in love with) you I'm like this. I'm nothing, nowhere (poor because of my years of quitting jobs to be with you, divorced because I couldn't love my wife, dating another woman but without any enthusiam -- but worst of all, stuck in an impossible situation that can't be fixed and so ...) I can't stand it no more, Jack."
--- End quote ---
I really like the idea of this Katherine. You could have a field day filling in the blanks in Ennis' dialogue couldn't you? As for your expanded dialogue here, actually I'm pretty happy with it. The "I'm like this because I love you" idea challenges me, but only because I see Ennis is blaming Jack for his situation in this scene. In my way of viewing it, you could also say: "It's because of you (making me this way that) I'm like this. I'm nothing, nowhere (because of my weekness and shame that I've lost everything).
Of course, any "expansion" to the dialogue is more about the emotion being conveyed than about unspoken words themselves, and the interpretation relies on the emotion you feel when watching it. My romantic side wants Ennis to mean "I love you", so that part of me agrees with the sentiment. On the other hand, Ennis does get angry a lot, so there's resentment in there as strong as any feeling of love.
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