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A question on religion

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Daniel:
In some Sufi traditions (which is predominantly male oriented), there are a number of writings which indicate that love of a homosexual nature was a reflection of Divine Mystery. " 'God is Beauty' says the Qur' an; for many great Persian mystics that beauty was most exquisitely and profoundly seen, tasted, and adored in the beauty of a beardless young man. The love of young men, in this vision, did not separate the seeker from God; on the contrary, as in the vision of Plato, it could be an initiation into divine splendor and bliss." If you want to look more into this, you might consider researching Farrid ud-Din Attar, Musharrif ud-Din Sadi, Muhammad Shams ud-Din Hafiz (1307 - 1388), Fahkruddin Iraqi (1213 - 1289), Muwlana Nur ud-Din Jami (1414 - 1490).

moremojo:
I just now read your second reply, Daniel. I remember reading that there was a tradition in Japan that homosexual male relations were introduced into that country by Buddhist priests. This is almost certainly an oversimplification of social history, but it is interesting to note the ancient conflation of Buddhism, in this part of the world, with homosexual practices and attitudes.

I am quite fond of Basho in his articulation and development of haiku, but did not realize that there are homoerotic associations or motifs in his story. I will definitely look into that, as well as the other names you mentioned.

moremojo:
Wow...just read your third reply, Daniel. I am familiar with the names that you mention here, but have read very little by them. The mystical Persian poet with whom I am most familar is Rumi, who does not seem to have invoked this theme of seeing the divine in the beautiful young male, or at least not to such a pronounced degree.

This tradition is particularly fascinating in how it presents such a different face of Islam to that which we have become accustomed in the modern West. Perhaps this validation of the homoerotic is a dormant element within the current Muslim psyche, waiting hopefully to spring one day to renewed life and inspiration?

Daniel:
Actually, Rumi was greatly inspired by Farid ud-Din Attar, whose book "The Conference of the Birds" is one of my favorite epic poems. I am not extensively familiar with the Sufi traditions or their teachings, but I have read "The Love Poems of Rumi" as well and find that if any of his poems hinted at eroticism (Rumi's, not Attar's), it was of a hetero-erotic nature.  This just leads me to believe that Sufism could be greatly personalized.

David In Indy:

--- Quote from: moremojo on June 22, 2007, 07:14:38 pm ---Hey, Jess and Daniel, thank you for your replies. Yes, I knew that David was knowledgeable in the area of Native American views on homosexuality...maybe he'll come across this thread in time.

It seems like many of the Native American peoples valued their homosexual members to a degree perhaps unmatched in any other known culture or tradition (and I'm including the modern Western civilization in which we live in this). The honor which was accorded them and the central degree to which they were integrated into tribal life are impressive. And Daniel, I noted one of your examples includes a person who is seemingly still living, suggesting that these views and traditions remain viable and pertinent to at least some communities. I am also intrigued to note the geographical range of the nations who esteemed these particular people, ranging from the Mohawk of the Eastern Seaboard and nations of the plains like the Cheyenne and Sioux, to the southwestern peoples like the Zuni and Navajo.

This is a great start, and most helpful. Thanks again for the valuable information and references.

--- End quote ---

Hi Scott!

I meant to post this an hour ago but I keep getting pulled away from the computer.

Daniel did such a wonderful job of outlining the Native American attitudes of homosexuality, there's really not much I can add.  :)

I remember my mother telling me about the "basket and bow" test, which sometimes would be given if a child was suspected of being a wink'te, the Lakota word for "half man" or "gay". The child would be instructed to walk into the middle of a ring encircling a basket and a bow. After the child entered the ring, it was set on fire. The child was then told to grab one object and quickly leave the ring. If the child was a male and grabbed the basket instead of the bow, this would prove the child was indeed a wink'te.  I'm not sure if this test was used on girls. I suppose it could have been.

Wink'te were highly honored among the Sioux. They were considered holy and wise. They were a "bridge" between male and female; a perfect cosmic vibration that would insure balance and peace within the tribe. Wink'te were elevated to a near god like position in the Sioux tribes; their visions and medicine always trusted. Wink'te were considered a sacred gift from WakanTanka (God).

Many members on the Lakota side of my family have told me that in addition to Native American Wink'te, the Sioux also adopted non Native wink'te into their tribes. I have never seen any written evidence of this, but I was told this was done on several ocassions in my specific tribe. It's a shame these wonderful Sioux qualities and traditions were left out of our history books.

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