I did once -- by EnnisLovesJack

[TOoP/Bruce]

I did once.   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Wed Feb 1 2006 13:12:11 )   
   
It's very weird to me that Ennis blows up at Jack right after Jack says "I did once" line (about having a better idea). I always take Jack's words here to mean "I did suggest we ranch up together, but you said no."

So why is this the trigger that makes Ennis lose his temper and threaten Jack??? I really don't think Jack's referring to his buying sex in Mexico with the "I did once." Do any of you? This just really doesn't make sense to me.

Why doesn't Ennis blow up about Mexico when Jack actually mentions it, saying "we should go to Mexico", which happens much earlier in the scene???

Is this just a massivley delayed reaction? I mean Jack only says they should move there, he doesn't say he's actually been there. Surely, Ennis doesn't think the "I did once" refers to this.



"I'm sending up a prayer of thanks."

Re: I did once.   
  by pdburns1   (Wed Feb 1 2006 13:22:52 )   
   
I think that Ennis doesn't react to "Mexico" when Jack first mentions it because it doesn't register at the time. When Jack says "I did once", I think the "Mexico" comment hits Ennis because he realizes that Jack may indeed to ready to move on. He may not suggest to Ennis again that they set up house together. And if Jack doesn't set up house with Ennis, then he might with someone else. It hits Ennis that he really could lose Jack to another man. He gets jealous and threatens to kill Jack. Ennis is not only jealous of the men in Mexico, but whomever Jack may be with and possibly give him the one thing that Ennis can't give him.

Re: I did once.   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Wed Feb 1 2006 13:42:32 )   

pdburns1, good call. I never thought baout that, but you're right. The one thing Ennis can't/won't give Jack is normal life together. Yet aside from this, no one else can give Jack what Ennis can. Ennis is the only one who can quench Jack's heart, but he can't give him this one, very big thing.

It's so tragic because living together with someone else would - I think - have been empty for Jack. Life would have been much easier, but I think his emptiness and dissatisfaction would have parallelled Ennis' when he was with Alma.

"I'm sending up a prayer of thanks."

Re: I did once.   
  by deanhoxton   (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:13:36 )   

Yes I do agree with this.. I think Ennis was more angry about the fact that at last he realised that Jack has given up on the whole secret thing. And that jack realised that he needs more than once or twice a year rendesvous. Ennis, i think probably is as much frustrated with himself as he is with jack.

Re: I did once.   
  by Tactful   (Wed Feb 1 2006 13:32:59 )   
   
Just a random perspective here. For me, i think that Ennis blows up when Jack says "I did once" because he already told Jack that that could never happen. he's getting frustrated because deep inside Ennis knows he wants that too but he's too afraid to actually do it. He's afraid of what other people thinks, afraid of what society can do. He wants to but he's too afraid too. all his desire pent up came out as anger.

"Individuals defying society is like David going up against Goliath without his sling and stone."

Re: I did once.   
  by starboardlight   (Wed Feb 1 2006 13:35:54 )   
   
In the short story, "I did once" has an accusatory tone, which doesn't come through as clearly in Jake's delivery. None the less, Ennis feels his guilt rising. It hurts him that Jack is feeling so hurt and he knows that it's because of his own fear that he can't give Jack what he needs. To deflect that guilt, Ennis focus in on Mexico to try and make Jack feel guilty.

Re: I did once.   
  by Jamessemaj12   (Wed Feb 1 2006 13:47:09 )   

Starboardlight, you took the words out of my mouth. that is exactly what was going on. As you stated "I DID ONCE" is accusatory and that sets off Ennis b/c Jack is making Ennis feel Mea Culpa.

"But all in all, it's been a fabulous year for Laura and me." BUSH. after 9/11 attacks, 12/20/2001

Re: I did once.   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Wed Feb 1 2006 17:04:27 )   
   
Thanks to all for their interesting persepctives. The more opinions/interpretations I hear about these tidbits in the film/story, the fuller my understanding of it grows.

"I'm sending up a prayer of thanks."

Re: I did once.   
  by kirkmusic   (Tue Mar 14 2006 03:59:06 )   
   
I agree with the above two posters. When Jack says "I did once," Ennis knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on in this argument and goes on the defensive. Ennis has a hard time taking responsibility for things he regrets. Like that "once burned" he throws at Alma, as if it was her fault they got divorced.

Re: I did once.   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Tue Mar 14 2006 14:37:46 )   
   
UPDATED Sat Mar 18 2006 14:48:39
I agree with the above two posters. When Jack says "I did once," Ennis knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on in this argument and goes on the defensive. Ennis has a hard time taking responsibility for things he regrets. Like that "once burned" he throws at Alma, as if it was her fault they got divorced.

I totally agree. I turned that into a post for the Nuances of Cowboy Ettiquette, one of my FAVORITE threads. Ennis is indeed blaming Alma for the divorce. I believe it is her indignation at this absurd back-handed accusation that triggers her confrontation speech, unleashing all her hurt, anger, and sense of betrayal.

Incidentally, Ennis does the same thing with Cassie in their last scene together. Looking at Carl, he intones "Most like got the message, in any case." As if Cassie's the one who abandoned him. At least he redeems himself somewhat when he apologizes, when he realizes she really loved him and that he really hurt her deep. That handsome, rugged, tortured cowboy, breaking hearts right and left, that one. Mine included.....

"Uh...it's too late to go back to the sheep...up there."

Re: I did once.   
  by terryhall2   (Tue Mar 14 2006 15:07:36 )   
   
I understood the accusatory 'I did once' that Jack says as a flashbulb going off in Ennis' head. Ennis isn't stupid. He links the Mexico thing and the fact that he hasn't joined Jack on a ranch all these years because he repeats 'you did once (pause)..have you been a Mexico, JACK? It doesn't take much for him to be suspicious that Jack might be going off to Mexico and so moving on from his continued request that he and Ennis share a place together. I interpret Jack's comment as a hurt but resigned statement: I did once, you didn't want to know, so what am I left to do but move on'

Re: I did once.   
  by kirkmusic   (Tue Mar 14 2006 15:08:33 )   

Oh yeah! Forgot about that comment to Cassie.

BTW, my previous post should have said Ennis went on the "offensive," not defensive. The whole point was that he couldn't defend himself so he changed the subject. Sort of like the current administration.

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: I did once.   
  by carjones51   (Wed Feb 1 2006 18:57:03 )   
   
UPDATED Wed Feb 1 2006 20:33:05
ELJ, Ennis's reaction NEVER made sense to me either. I've read some good posts on this board that discuss it, but I had the same reaction as you. When I saw the movie, I couldn't understand how the conversation jumped from "I suggested we ranch together, but you flat out refused" to "Are you cheating on me?" I thought to myself, "What just happened? Huh?" LOL! Exceptional scene though!

"I really don't think Jack's referring to his buying sex in Mexico with the "I did once." Do any of you? This just really doesn't make sense to me."


No, like you, I've always thought, and continue to think, that Jack's "I did once" line refers the suggestions he makes throughout their relationship that he and Ennis ranch/live together. I NEVER thought he was referring to the prostitute(s) he solicited in Mexico.


"Is this just a massivley delayed reaction? I mean Jack only says they should move there, he doesn't say he's actually been there. Surely, Ennis doesn't think the "I did once" refers to this."


Yeah, I posed this same question in a thread months ago and someone told me that Ennis had been thinking about Jack's Mexico mention from the moment Jack made it. When Jack's says, "I did once," it's past tense, so Ennis knows Jack no longer has any dreams/ideas about the two of them living together. Why doesn't Jack have this dream/hope anymore? Because he's been cheating. That was the logic, or rather Ennis's train of thought, that someone kindly posted for me. Hopefully, they'll come along and state it much better than I have. LOL!
 
Re: I did once.   
  by flashframe777   (Wed Feb 1 2006 19:23:47 )   
   
UPDATED Wed Feb 1 2006 20:04:51
When Jack says, "I DID ONCE." Ennis flips out because he thinks Jack is leaving him.

Jack doesn't put forth the effort to find a better way, but instead says "I DID ONCE" as if he is giving up on Ennis.

As far as Ennis concerned Jack may as well have said, I don't love you anymore.

Ennis had previously picked up on Jack's Freudian slip about "why don't we go to Mexico?" Ennis is insecure & jealous because he suspects Jack has gone to Mexico, and maybe even found another man, and that's why Jack no longer has a better idea.

Ennis, like so many jealous men, was threatening Jack if he should leave him.

"You bet." --Ennis del Mar

Re: I did once.   
  by agreeneyedgoddess1234   (Wed Feb 1 2006 19:26:36 )   
   
bumping so i can find this later...

Every living creature on earth dies alone.

Re: I did once.   
  by carjones51   (Wed Feb 1 2006 19:33:02 )
   
Hey, Flash!

That whole conversation used to confuse me as well, but you and others have given such great explanations for why Ennis became so angry. I guess what I still find somewhat confusing is how Mexico can be perceived as a "Freudian slip."

Are we to assume that it is common knowledge that one can get male prositutes in Mexico? Well, in answer to my own question, Ennis does say, "I know what Mexico has for boys like you" so I guess. . . . . . .

Re: I did once.   
  by flashframe777   (Wed Feb 1 2006 19:59:26 )   
   
UPDATED Wed Feb 1 2006 20:00:16
Well, in answer to my own question, Ennis does say, "I know what Mexico has for boys like you" so I guess.
---------------------------------------
Carjones....you answered your own question...lol!

Thanks Monimm......

"You bet." --Ennis del Mar

Re: I did once.   
  by carjones51   (Wed Feb 1 2006 20:30:47 )   

LOL! I did, didn't I?

I think I asked you this before Flash, but I can't remember so I'm gonna ask again :-)

Do you think Ennis was always worried that Jack was cheating on him? I mean, over the years, do you think he had a nagging thought in the back of his mind about Jack, esp. in light of TX's proximity to Mexico. What do you think?

Re: I did once.   
  by momoro   (Tue Mar 14 2006 08:51:45 )   
   
Do you think Ennis was always worried that Jack was cheating on him?
I think Ennis would have attempted to put any such thoughts well out of his mind. Remember, at this point in the story, Ennis is still quite homophobic--he doesn't want to think of either himself or Jack as being gay men, but otherwise heterosexual men who have this unusual relationship between themselves. The Mexico reference, apart from spurring Ennis's jealousy, also highlights for Ennis, for the first time perhaps, that Jack is gay, that he has yearnings to be with a man, and is willing to fulfill this need with a man other than Ennis. Jack realizes Ennis's homophobia, which is why the night before the quarrel he lied about his affair with Randall, switching Lashawn for Randall in his story to Ennis.

It is still very interesting to me that Ennis never shows interest in any man other than Jack. At best, he is indifferent to men, and at worst, downright aggressive. This element has always complicated my interpretation of Ennis's sexual identity, as Jack's desire for male intimacy, preferably with Ennis (who he loves) but if necessary with another man, seems more typical of gay men's feelings and behavior.

Nothing compares, I think, when thinking right, to a good friend.

Re: I did once.   
  by taj_e   (Tue Mar 14 2006 09:47:17 )   
   
Ennis has always been worried, not so much on cheating on him/jealousy, but his worst fear/homophobia

Jack on the other hand, has always been careful not to 'nurture' this fear. The fact that he lied about Randall perhaps was one example

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/thread/38162748?d=38162748#38162748

Re: I did once.   
  by carjones51   (Tue Mar 14 2006 12:26:08 )   
   
Well, I just ask b/c all Jack says is that they should go someplace warm like Mexico. Soon after, Ennis asks him if he's gone to Mexico b/c he (Ennis) knows what Mexico has for boys like him (Jack). It seems to me that whenever Ennis learned about Mexico, he may have feared that Jack would go there. I'm not sure.

Over six months later   
  by momoro   (Thu Oct 12 2006 16:36:56 )   
   
I was just reviewing my post history, and discovered that this is the earliest post of mine on this board that still exists. My first substantial post here was made on Monday, February 20th, two days after having seeing the single most important film of my life. In the space of a little over six months, I feel like I have experienced more emotion, soul-searching, and community-building than I have in the past six years. This movie is still very much a miracle in my life.

Posting for old times' sake, and out of abiding love for Ennis and Jack.

Nothing compares, I think, when thinking right, to a good friend.

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: I did once.   
  by monimm18   (Wed Feb 1 2006 19:47:55 )   
   
flashframe777,

Perfectly put.


"There ain't never enough time, never enough..."

Re: I did once.   
  by fsugrad   (Thu Feb 2 2006 13:17:17 )   
   
UPDATED Thu Feb 2 2006 13:19:44
flashframe777, Nicely said. I agree with you.

Re: I did once.   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Tue Mar 14 2006 14:24:35 )   
   
When Jack's says, "I did once," it's past tense, so Ennis knows Jack no longer has any dreams/ideas about the two of them living together. Why doesn't Jack have this dream/hope anymore? Because he's been cheating. That was the logic, or rather Ennis's train of thought, that someone kindly posted for me. Hopefully, they'll come along and state it much better than I have. LOL!

Heya carjones. I know much time has passed but I was just re-reading your comment (quoted here), and a new connection struck me. In another thread, people spoke of the importance of tense (present vs. past) in "This is a one shot thing we got going here" scene. The significance of the present tense being that Ennis means the "one shot thing" is their summer on the mountain, not just that one drunken night.

Now you/the script/story bring it full circle, if I'm not reading too much into this. With Jack's use of the past tense, "I did once," indicating he no longer has hopes/illusions of ranchin' up with Ennis, by this point. Of course he still wishes they could, but he has accepted the reality that Ennis will never budge on this.

Oh that scene kills me. They all do, really. But watching stoic Ennis cry, watching him try to stuff those tears back down, pressing against the inner corners of his eyes with his fingers, like the little dutch boy trying to stem the impending flood of the busting dam. Oh, Ennis....


P.S. I always wonder what that evening/dinner at camp was like (following their "I ain't queer" conversation). Tense, surely. I imagine them eating in silence. Ennis struggling with everything he's feeling, Jack confused and unsure, not knowing if Ennis will in fact keep their "thing" going or not. Anyone else wonder about this?

"Uh...it's too late to go back to the sheep...up there."

Re: I did once.   
  by davidkuhl   (Wed Feb 1 2006 19:26:50 )   
   
Ennis realizes when Jack says "I did once," that he has ruined his life for fear. He has to lash out instead of admitting he was wrong. That's just who he is.

Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by HobokenJeff   (Wed Feb 1 2006 20:33:00 )   

UPDATED Wed Feb 1 2006 20:36:25
In another thread today we were discussing the use of the present tense vs. the past tense (when Ennis sais to Jack, "this is a one shot deal we got going on here"). This is another example of the utmost importance of tense to this story (and the brilliance of the screen writers).

Jack says "I did once." Those three words are so fiercely in the past tense that they are like a club swung full force at Ennis's soft emotional underbelly.

Ennis has demonstrated throughout the entire movie that when he feels emotionally vulnerable or in any way cornered, he tends to pick a fight at best or come out swinging at worst. It is who he is ... a human volcano who manages to keep every facet of emotional response tightly under wraps until the right set of emotional triggers sets him off.

Jack using the past tenst like that, his voice dripping with disappointment, pain, and ... even worse ... finality, is too much for Ennis. This is the mother of human volcano triggers. The thing he fears most in life ... that Jack will one day give up on him ... is staring him in the face. So how does he respond? Exactly as he always does ... the larger the threat, the larger the reaction (witness the senseless Thanksgiving fistfight in the street just after Alma confronts him about Jack Nasty). He seizes on the first thing he can think of to pick a fight. It doesn't make sense to the rational, linear-thinking mind, but it's exactly how a real, threatened person like Ennis would react. He goes for the jugular and, in so doing, presents Jack with the ultimate test (and the ultimate in unspoken pleas "please don't desert me even though I'm asking you to!!!).

That's my take on it.

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by flashframe777   (Thu Feb 2 2006 07:32:55 )   

Hoboken Jeff, agreed, Ennis was testing Jack. Don't leave me, even though I'm asking you to. And Jack came back to him. For Ennis, it was the same result as when Jack drove 1600 miles for nothing and angrily said "See you next month".

And the Mexico thing is just a trigger point for Ennis. I say its a Freudian slip because Jack knows he has to be circumspect about subjects like other men and Mexico. Jack would know that Ennis would know about Mexico, and would not bring it up out of context...he really should have used another warm place to have proved his point.

"You bet." --Ennis del Mar

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by starboardlight   (Thu Feb 2 2006 10:54:47 )   

he really should have used another warm place to have proved his point.


or maybe he picked Mexico on purpose.

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by carjones51   (Thu Feb 2 2006 11:46:54 )   
   
I guess my problem w/the whole Mexico thing is this: Mexico is a huge country! I could understand if we were talking about a particular city or a certain street corner, but a whole country? I guess I'm still trying to find out how Ennis found out about Mexico. It doesn't look like he has very many friends. He doesn't seem to socialize too much, and I doubt he's met any other gay men simply b/c he keeps himself so isolated. So, how did he find out about Mexico?

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by flashframe777   (Thu Feb 2 2006 17:59:27 )   

UPDATED Thu Feb 2 2006 18:04:43
Carjones...bordertowns can be sleazy.


Ennis was MAD at Jack, and jealous. He wasn't substituting anything for what he was feeling in that scene. NO FOOLIN'. Mad....
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Thu Feb 2 2006 12:28:48 )   
   
How many other warm places are in close proximity to Wyoming?

"I'm sending up a prayer of thanks."

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by CowboyCody   (Thu Feb 2 2006 12:36:36 )   
   
Starboardlight - You really got that one down bud. That line in particular almost made me forget to breathe and hyperventilate, then I broke down.

"Redlined it all the way. Couldn't get here fast enough" - Jack Twist

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by starboardlight   (Thu Feb 2 2006 12:37:36 )   
   
well. Texas would be closer than Mexico. It's a big state with lots of places to go and not ever meet the Newsomes. Even Arizona would be closer than Mexico.

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Thu Feb 2 2006 13:02:24 )   
   
starboardlight,
well. Texas would be closer than Mexico. It's a big state with lots of places to go and not ever meet the Newsomes. Even Arizona would be closer than Mexico.

You mean as warm places Jack could have suggested they go? Yeah, I guess.

Maybe you guys are right about Jack mentioning Mexico on purpose. It just never occured to me that that would be happening. Am I totally naive? 

carjones51, in the book it says, "Mexico was the place, Ennis had heard." Of course, that doesn't explain how. But that's how the book touches on it. Maybe it was just common knowledge somehow? Don't ask me how. .

Another thing I like in this scene is Ennis last line, "I can't take/stand it anymore." (Which word does he use? Don't have the story-to-screenplay on me here at work.) I like this because it echoes Jacks' "Sometimes I miss you so bad I can hardly stand it." And after being the stoic "if you can't fix it you gotta stand it" one in the relationship, he finally reaches that point where he can't stand it. Not that he's gonna end things, but it's finally gotten to him, and he allows Jack to see him in so rawly human and vulnerable, a very rare sight indeed.

There's an earlier scene, where they meet up camping, where Ennis arrives and Jack has already set up camp. Ennis walks up with a bag in his hands and says "Look what I brought...Beans!" Which is such a touching demonstration of romantic nostalgia. Sadly, in the movie, they cut this line out. All you hear Ennis say, vaguely, is "Look what I brought..." Unless it's just bad sound in the theater I saw it in.


"I'm sending up a prayer of thanks."

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Thu Feb 2 2006 12:45:07 )   
   
HobokenJeff, thanks for your thoughts. I enjoyed the insights into tense in the "one shot deal" thread, but I'm not sure it answers things for me re: "I did once."

While much of what you say makes sense, thid thing still nags at me. Ennis has turned Jack down - and even mocked/reacted with annoyance - every single time that Jack has proposed a life together. So why would Ennis freak out that Jack stops proposing this? After 20 years of rejection on his idea...I mean, come on. Now I know, you say Ennis is not thinking rationally. OK. True.

It just seems weird. I mean when Jack suggested Ennis move to Texas, on their previous (second to last) fishing trip, he kinda lost it a bit. Jack: "I'm just thinking out loud." Ennis: "Oh yeah, you're a real thinker! .... Jack *beep* Twist..." etc. And there, Jack wasn't even suggesting they shack up, just that Ennis 1. move out of a place he feels suspected/unsafe, and 2. move closer to Jack, so they can see each other more often, and more easily (no 1200 mile drive for Jack).Maybe I'm just looking for more sense than is there to find.

And you may be right about Jack seeking to hurt Ennis with his "I did once," but that is not how I read it. I saw it as Jack being really frustrated, and just pointing out the obvious. He's been suggesting his "better idea" for 20 years, getting nothing but negative reactions. Do you guys think Jack is trying to hurt Ennis?

As far as Ennis testing Jack, I honestly don't think it's anything conscious. I think, like you said, that Ennis just kind of cracks, and that's why he flips out on Jack, and also why he collapses, cries, and tells Jack to leave him alone. Not because that's what he wants. He doesn't mean it. And I don't think he's trying to test Jack. It's just like in any charged argument, you often say things you really don't mean. I don't know...Am I making any sense? Possibly not.

Maybe I'm just looking for the most positive possible interpretation, because I love these boys and can't stand to see them hurting, and especially hurting each other. 


"I'm sending up a prayer of thanks."

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by HobokenJeff   (Thu Feb 2 2006 14:45:29 )   
   
As I said in my post, Ennis's typical reaction every time Jack mentions making a life together (after the first time when Ennis tells Jack the story of being forced to view Earl's body) has been to start an argument or to pick a fight. It's a defense mechanism that enables him to avoid dealing with the situation. By picking these fights Ennis doesn't want to push Jack away, he just wants the conversation to go away so he won't have to deal with the desire and emptiness and fear that are wrapped up in the concept of a life with Jack. He just wants it to stay the same, without Jack rocking the boat.

To me, Jack's utterance of "I did once" isn't indicative that Jack has accepted the status quo (which would, as you point out, be a relief to Ennis). What Jack says, and how he says it, implies something worse: that he may no longer want to be with Ennis at all (i.e. he gives up entirely and wants to move on, if he can). There's a big difference between those two things. I don't at all think that Jack was trying to hurt Ennis with those words. I think Jack has just been worn down and he's frustrated and is feeling defeated and can't stand to have his feelings hurt any more and he just, for that moment at least, gives up. I think all of that comes out in his voice when he utters those three words -- but I don't think there's an ounce of vindictiveness.

How did Ennis know of "Mexico"? He's had bad jobs all of his life (the road crew, ranch hand, etc) where people shoot the breeze all day. Border towns have always been known for prostitution and vice, and I guess that's maybe how he's heard of what can be found in Mexico.

Just speculation on my part, though. But I think it kind of makes the scene play out more realistically.

I did once   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Thu Feb 2 2006 16:26:27 )   
   
Thanks for your thoughts. You make many good points. I've been digesting everyone's comments have all day. There's just so much gold to mine in this film.
Things I haven't seen because a some others have said, I get so wrapped up in the story and it's movement. The movie feels so fast to me, from the ever since my second viewing - I'm up to 4 now -like a train moving just a little too fast towards its destination. Mainly because time flies when you're enjoying something.

"I'm sending up a prayer of thanks."

Re: I did once   
  by MidnightBlue88   (Thu Feb 2 2006 16:53:52 )   
   
I don't know if anyone's interested, but there's a clip of this entire scene here:

http://youtube.com/w/mulitaaaaa-brokeback-mountain-four?v=itFXDq0QhGg

The sound quality's kinda bad, but, then again, the sound quality's pretty bad throughout the entire movie. :/ Anyway, hope this helps.

By the way, I agree with you, ELJ. It's a train wreck in slow motion, moving slowly towards its inevitable conclusion. But the fact that 20 years pass during the film is what kills me. I just want to stop the film reel and let them have a few minutes together like they do in the scene where Jack's sleeping on his feet. Even that scene is too short for me. Anyway, excellent ideas in this thread.

Re: I did once   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Thu Feb 2 2006 17:13:11 )   
   
Thanks for the link, greygirl. Sadly, poor sound quality in the theaters (and clips) means we're losing some things we'd rather not.
By the way, I agree with you, ELJ. It's a train wreck in slow motion, moving slowly towards its inevitable conclusion. But the fact that 20 years pass during the film is what kills me. I just want to stop the film reel and let them have a few minutes together like they do in the scene where Jack's sleeping on his feet. Even that scene is too short for me.

I hear ya, girl! I feel the SAME way. Just kills me.
It all just moves so fast. I swear, I yearn for them to be together almost as much as they do!

"I'm sending up a prayer of thanks."

Re: I did once   
  by MidnightBlue88   (Thu Feb 2 2006 17:34:00 )   

>>>I hear ya, girl! I feel the SAME way. Just kills me.
It all just moves so fast. I swear, I yearn for them to be together almost as much as they do!<<<

I think that's what made the film so powerful for me. I wanted it for them so badly, and I felt some part of what they must have felt when they never acheived it. There are very few movies where I cared about the characters as much as I did in this one.

I'm going to go cry now...

Re: I did once   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Thu Feb 2 2006 18:02:05 )   
   
I think that's what made the film so powerful for me. I wanted it for them so badly, and I felt some part of what they must have felt when they never acheived it. There are very few movies where I cared about the characters as much as I did in this one.

Cryin' right now, just reading your post. And I'm at the public library! People will think I'm nuts, but oh well.

Re: Thank you. You're 100% right.   
  by adamx013   (Thu Feb 2 2006 17:58:49 )   
   
HobokenJeff said perfectly many things I was about to. But to briefly reiterate - I agree that although Ennis kept saying "no" to Jack about shacking up, he obviously saw that as part of their ritual, their status quo. When he realizes that Jack may have moved away from this it really freaks him out. It is obvious that he is desperate for things to remain as they have been, for Jack to keep reaching out to him and their relationship to go on. Of course, Jack does have the right to ask for more, but I think in rewatching this whole fight scene again on You Tube, you can see just how much Ennis loves Jack. He tries to talk him out of his funk, he comes up with suggestions, he tries to be reasonable, and when pushed, he erupts in anger and then he cries. He is basically laying as much of himself out there as he can at this point, which I think sometimes people forget.

Also, I think that Ennis was picking up on Jack's rather depressed, downtrodden mood which you notice during much of this last trip together. Jack looks tired, pale, drawn, sighs a lot, etc. I think this was eating at Ennis - thus his nervous behavior when telling Jack about having to cancel August, and thus his extreme reaction when he hears Jack say "I did once", right after he has just had to digest that Jack has been scooting down to Mexico to get some on the side.

Jeff, I couldn't have said it better!   
  by davidinhartford   (Sun Mar 12 2006 06:42:57 )   
   
Thanks!

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: I did once.   
  by twistedude   (Wed Feb 1 2006 20:35:49 )   
   
Yes, it's a massively delayed reaction, coupled with frustration.

"You come back and see us again"--Jack's mother
But Holly3wood would never make a bovie about us.--Mysterious Skin

Re: I did once.   
  by starboardlight   (Wed Feb 1 2006 22:25:44 )   
   
we've all been there in an argument. you argue, you bring up a good point, the other person can't respond, so he/she brings up something else to attack you with. we've all been guilty on both sides. that's what Ennis is doing. He can't respond to "I did once" so he goes on the attack and brings up Mexico. You deflect guilt so you don't have to answer for it.

Re: I did once.   
  by Ellemeno   (Wed Feb 1 2006 22:30:45 )   

>> You deflect guilt so you don't have to answer for it.

Tell you what, hunh.

"And the Oscar goes to....Heath Ledger, for "Brokeback Mountain."

Re: I did once.   
  by starboardlight   (Thu Feb 2 2006 06:58:21 )   
   
Tell you what, hunh.


did i not make sense, again?

Re: I did once.   
  by snuffle007   (Thu Feb 2 2006 17:45:56 )   
   
I rally think the whole "i did once" tells Ennis that Jack doesn't think living together is a good idea anymore. This hurts Ennis. A lot. So he grabs the best weapon he can...mexico.

If you listen, he repeats the "I did once" as if digesting it then there is a pause. He is so scared that Jack will leave him, to deflect the guit back he brings back mexico. It's a defense mechinism. He knows he has treated Jack badly in the past but to protect himself, he goes on the attack.

This is a painful scene that is really complex. I love it though.

Amazingly well acted. Beautiful, tragic and sooooooo sad.

"I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."
"I wish I knew how to quit you"

Re: I did once.   
  by stitchbuffymoulinfan   (Sun Mar 12 2006 06:56:00 )   
   
Aww, that was such a sad part.

I don't think it had anything to do with the male prostitute. "I did once," in my eyes, refers to all the dreams Jack had of them living together and all the times he had suggested they do so. The past tense suggests that Jack may be ready to move on which, I think, scares Ennis.

(By the way, I don't think Jack could actually move on from Ennis. I just don't.)

www.jlodown.com
www.petitionspot.com/petitions/jlodown

Re: I did once.   
  by tmolthan   (Sun Mar 12 2006 07:20:11 )   
   
Exactly. Just the look in Jack's eyes, and the tone of his voice when he said that, was something new to Ennis, and it truly scared him. That's why he threatened Jack and then Jack goes into one of the most heart-wrenching speeches ever put on film. God, I love that scene, the best scene in the movie, IMHO.

Re: I did once.   
  by NewHorizons37   (Sun Mar 12 2006 07:23:25 )   
   
Absolutely. And while many people have commented on how wrenching "I wish I knew how to quit you" is, for me it's everything leading up to that, starting with "I did once." The way Jack says it, and that it's past tense, that's up there for me for most wrenching quote in the movie.

Re: I did once.   
  by tmolthan   (Sun Mar 12 2006 09:54:24 )   
   
Me too. I just loved everything about that scene, but when Jack says,"I did once" the heartbreak is so very real. Then he goes on to tell Ennis everything that Ennis knows in his heart is true, but has been unable to come to terms with over nearly twenty years. Wow, the most powerful movie scene ever. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Re: I did once.   
  by chrissy2705   (Thu Mar 16 2006 09:44:25 )   
   
i agree 100% w/the "i did once" being the most gut-wrenching statement of the movie..

Re: I did once.   
  by Michael-194   (Mon Mar 13 2006 22:15:21 )   
   
Not just in this movie - that speech, with the music, cinematography, and fantastic acting job by Jake, was one of the beat scenes in all movies - right up there with Rick's scene at the bar in Casablance. From the opening,
I did once
until
I wish I knew how to quit you
my heart was truly wrenched.

Re: I did once.   
  by taj_e   (Sun Mar 12 2006 11:34:37 )   

When Mexico was first mentioned, Jack was earlier saying about how 'cold' the their relationship has been. That they have always meet up on the mountain and Ennis might have understood Mexico as a warmer place

When Ennis said if Jack had better idea, it got him thinking why Jack mentioned he did once. As if he had found and already did something without him that is
And the only thing that came into his mind was Mexico. That Jack had find an alternative/better idea on his own

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/thread/38162748?d=38162748#38162748

Re: I did once.   
  by purchas500   (Tue Mar 14 2006 05:29:18 )   

I agree with you EnnisLovesJack. Perhaps Jack was referring to his suggestion that they should have ranched up together years ago like you said. I think that Jack probably went to Mexico many more times than once, so I doubt that he was referring to Mexico when he said "I did once". I reckon that Ennis was in an emotional-grind at that moment and was blowing everything out of proportion and making assumptions in his head that were not logical conclusions from what Jack was saying. The whole scene was a boiling-up and then explosion of many years of anxiety, fear, loneliness, wondering, repression, anger etc etc It's no wonder that thw flow of the scene doesn't make entire sense.

Re: I did once.   
  by tmolthan   (Tue Mar 14 2006 06:39:50 )   
   
When Jack said "I did once", he was referring to his wish that he and Ennis could have really been together, as Jack had suggested so many times. My god, what a great scene, one of the most memorable in movie history. That's the scene that you'll see over and over in tributes for generations.

Re: I did once.   
  by Front-Ranger   (Tue Mar 14 2006 08:21:20 )   
   
Everybody has such great insights in this thread and so beautifully said! I hope I am up to the challenge of contributing. Being an Ennis-type character myself, I'm sorry to say, the reaction I got when Jack said "I did once" (and the dead look in his eyes when he said it) was fear of abandonment. Here's Ennis, who was abandoned by his parents at the pivotal age of 13 (?) ("One bend in the road in 43 miles, and they missed it"), then abandoned by his older sister who ran off to Casper and married a roughneck, then also abandoned by the family car, when the transmission went out so he could no longer go to school, and finally abandoned by his older brother, who got married and pushed him out, and who had abused him anyway. Oh, and Alma had abandoned him and divorced him. Then, finally Jack, the only person who had ever devoted himself to Ennis and put up with his shortcomings, said those final words in the past tense and all the repressed feelings boiled up to the surface.

Another thing that Jack said that echoes in my mind is when he cried out, "All we have is Brokeback Mountain." I can just see that monolithic blue gray mountain staring back at them for 20 years, impenetrable, inscrutable. One mountain in their life of 39 years, and they could never get over it, or beyond it.

Re: I did once.   
  by anml-lvr   (Tue Mar 14 2006 08:45:52 )   
   
Well said Front Ranger.

Re: I did once.   
  by EnnisLovesJack   (Tue Mar 14 2006 15:09:25 )   
   
Sorry to post three in a row - not trying to hog the thread; just catching up on some earlier comments while I have a free moment. Sometimes it's "now or never," right?

Anyhow, thanks to everyone for their comments. I started this thread when i had only seen the film about 3 or 4 times. Now, after 12 times, and lots of great insights shared here by so many brokies, I understand this scene so much better, and am no longer puzzled by the scene structure.

Mainly I'm posting to say to FrontRanger, Wow! Thanks. Your personal response to this scene, as a self-proclaimed Ennis, is fascinating. I agree that what strikes fear into Ennis's heart is this sudden, unexpected possibility of abandonment. He responds defensively.

I LOVE this:
Another thing that Jack said that echoes in my mind is when he cried out, "All we have is Brokeback Mountain." I can just see that monolithic blue gray mountain staring back at them for 20 years, impenetrable, inscrutable. One mountain in their life of 39 years, and they could never get over it, or beyond it.
For me, Brokeback Mountain is the one place/time when their love was simple, pure and uncomplicated. They had no one else to answer to or pretend for. They were free. This was the only time they were truly happy (for more than 2 days at a time, I mean.)

And lastly (I promise ): I've been meaning to post a thread (in my imaginary spare time) about how Ennis is a triple orphan. My mom brought this to my attention. Orphaned first by his parents. then by his siblings, who "raised me mostly" (his substitue parents). Now Jack, who has always had a somewhat parental relationship with Ennis; soothing, comforting, reassuring him. Caring for him so deeply and unconditionally. Many lovers would have split after the divorce.



"Uh...it's too late to go back to the sheep...up there."

[TOoP/Bruce]

Thanks guys...   
  by tmolthan   (Tue Mar 14 2006 15:37:09 )   

I just wanted to say thanks to all the other fans for their insights in this wonderful thread. You're all kick-ass! This movie is a masterpiece that will live forever in our hearts.

"You know it could be like this, just like this, always..."

Re: I did once.   
  by northernlad   (Tue Mar 14 2006 20:25:24 )   
Ignore this User | Report Abuse   
I'm responding here, based on my own personal experience with my own temper. But has anyone here ever been talking to someone and not liked something the other person said to you, or something they said just pissed you off but you stew on it and you keep it in for awhile? It could be minutes, days or hell even months before you bring it up to that person but when you do you just explode.

I think Ennis was doing that here right after Jack mentions Mexico. I think somehow Ennis knew or had caught wind of some of the things that go on down in Mexico and that's how he knew about the prostitution. Still, Ennis chooses to keep it inside of himself, just like he does everything else. But then the conversation leads to the "I did once" and that sets Ennis off and he lets his anger about Mexico out in the open.

I do think that Jack using past tense here stung like a knife to Ennis and it may have struck him as Jack being a bit nagging towards him when Ennis had made it clear that it was never going to happen for them like that. I also think the past tense Jack uses also signals fear in Ennis that it may be coming to an end. At that moment he decides to let his anger out about Mexico because he's jealous that Jack may have been with other men. It also means that since Jack has been with other men, that Jack is gay and Ennis has to confront that as well.

Just my own thoughts on the subject.

"And I need you more than want you and I want you for all time"

Re: I did once.   
  by tmolthan   (Wed Mar 15 2006 05:46:30 )   
   
Yes, northernlad, all of that is true, but also at that moment Ennis is forced to face the fact the fact that he is also gay...hence the jealousy and fear of abandonment. That's why he breaks down and says "Get the f uck off me!" but then allows Jack to embrace him...this scene is the biggest turning point in the whole movie where truths are realized.


Re: I did once.   
  by kevinmcg   (Sat Mar 18 2006 14:55:18 )   
   
I think Ennis is somewhat mad that Jack has the ability to see a life beyond what Ennis can see, even if lot of Jack's dreams never come true. Think about the conversation they have during a previous meeting while Ennis is washing dishes at the stream: Ennis opens up to Jack that he's scared about people thinking they know his secret, Jack suggests he get away and move to some place like Texas (presumably so that they can be close to each and together more often) and Ennis just blows up at him.



Jack n' Ennis forever

Re: I did once.   
  by atz75   (Wed Mar 22 2006 21:40:40 )   
   
What amazing insights in this thread.

Re: I did once.   
  by atz75   (Sat Mar 25 2006 20:26:36 )   
   
Still one of the best threads.

In thinking about this last argument scene... Can someone explain why people have latched on to the "I wish I knew how to quit you" line as something funny or to joke about. I just completely fail to see the humor in that line and especially in that scene.

Also, about this big scene, I've come to realize how important that intense hug is at the end of their fight. I think the tragedy that follows this scene would be unbearable if we did not get the sense that Jack and Ennis had reconciled after this blow-up.

Re: I did once.   
  by atz75   (Sun Mar 26 2006 19:48:08 )   
   
-"For me, Brokeback Mountain is the one place/time when their love was simple, pure and uncomplicated. They had no one else to answer to or pretend for. They were free. This was the only time they were truly happy (for more than 2 days at a time, I mean.)" - Great thought from ELJ

I think Jack uses Brokeback as evidence that their lives really would have been happy together if they had lived together. After all, that first summer was the only time that they really truly did live together and they set up their own version of "domestic" happiness. Of course, both men recognize repeatedly that this was essentially the happiest time of their lives.

Re: I did once.   
  by santsa70   (Wed Mar 29 2006 10:34:33 )   
   
In a thread with 85 posts I'm sure this idea has already been shared, but I personally thought it made Ennis mad the same way it would make any person in an argument mad. Jack's saying he once had a plan that could have worked but never came to be because Ennis wouldn't let it. To me, its just one of those things someone says in order to pass the blame on the other guy, and even if Jack doesn't mean it in that way, that's how Ennis takes it. He believes Jack is saying he is to blame.

Re: I did once.   
  by atz75   (Wed Apr 5 2006 23:04:12 )   

One of the most insightful discussions of this scene...
Who knew the past tense could be so significant!

Re: I did once.   
  by revolution-hk   (Wed May 10 2006 17:31:26 )   
   
Becoz Jack have suggested so many times to move together, and Ennis can never fulfil his wish.
So during the last vacation with Ennis, Jack have not mentioned this until once more Ennis let him down. But Ennis did not noticed the difference between "I did once" and "Let's move together", which may imply Jack have nearly abandoned all hope. Ennis just though Jack was bringing up the issue again.

Re: I did once.   
  by dly64   (Thu Jun 8 2006 05:17:42 )   
   
I didn't read through this whole thread, but let me tell you ... it is the way Jack said "I did once."

In the short story, it reads like this:

"I did once." The tone was bitter and accusatory.

...... "Hell yes, I been. Where's the f..king problem?" Braced for it all these years and here it came, late and unexpected.

This scene was a pivotal scene because there was so much unspoken between them. Here is an additional question ... did Jack have sex with any one other than the prostitute? I happen to think he did.

... Food for thought.


"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em" - Ennis, BBM

Re: I did once.   
  by go76   (Thu Jun 8 2006 05:37:55 )   
   
UPDATED Thu Jun 8 2006 05:45:11
did Jack have sex with any one other than the prostitute?

He said it himself: "I am not you, I can't go with just couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year". And just before there was something like "First count the damn few times we were together for nearly 20 years, than measure the short leash you've been keeping me all this time, and then ask me about Mexico, and accuse me for needing something I hardly never get".

And that was the moment when Ennis broke down. He finally realized you have no right to demand a person to deprive himself from something you are not willing to provide. He was deadly jealous at that moment, demanding and expecting total fidelity, but all this time giving nothing in return but small bits of whatever he considered as love, restricted by fear, paranoia and rejection (not mentioning the humiliation).

So did Jack has other persons to have sex with? Yes. Did he had another lover? Definitely not.

God, I needed a cigarette after that. And I don't even smoke.

Re: I did once.   
  by dly64   (Thu Jun 8 2006 10:42:20 )   
   
And that was the moment when Ennis broke down. He finally realized you have no right to demand a person to deprive himself from something you are not willing to provide. He was deadly jealous at that moment, demanding and expecting total fidelity, but all this time giving nothing in return but small bits of whatever he considered as love, restricted by fear, paranoia and rejection (not mentioning the humiliation).

So did Jack have other persons to have sex with? Yes. Did he had another lover? Definitelly not.

That is very well said, and I agree with you. I don't think that this was any news to Ennis. I think he knew it, but couldn't face it. It was as if he had a shot in the heart when the reality of the situation was actually "out there". They were each other's one-in-a-lifetime love. So, even though Jack had sex with other men, it was just that ... sex. Nothing more.

Diane

"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em" - Ennis, BBM

Re: I did once.   
by jecesa   (Wed Jun 14 2006 16:33:54 )
   
hi, i finally watched BBM and am a serious movie person even though i delay watching them sometimes. So, I"m just digging through IMDB on it now. I was relieved that all the jokes and parodies didn't touch or ruin the experience.

First, "why did so many jokes arise from the 'quitting'" scene. I think for the same reason this thread exists and it's reflection of the content of that scene. First you have all of Ennis' unexpressed love which was never a mystery to me but anyway then you get an argument based on expression of frustrations and hopelessness - they are finally getting to the point where they admit out loud: yes this means everything but something has to change I can't deal with it. Ennis finally tells Jack that he's made his life-stilting decisions not so much out of frugality and practicality but to keep them alive. The "quitting" line is Jack practically screaming from the mountaintop his attachment.

It's a pinnacle scene emotionally. Some people are drawn into the expressiveness of the characters. Others are made uncomfortable and squeamish and use humor to deflect their emotions.

Regarding the "I did once" - I remember when the idea of people going to Mexico was synonymous with prostitution. I think it gets woven into their conversation as unfair fighting. Not an entirely detached way to hurt someone but parallel to the bloody-nose brawl they had that led to the forever entwined 2-shirt memento. Jack is frustrated to always have to wait for Ennis to say "no" we can't be together this month, this season, never live together. It was no surprise to me that he would throw in a statement to make him jealous and try to spur him to realize other men have been in the picture as a sucker punch.

Re: I did once.   
  by dly64   (Wed Jun 14 2006 17:12:27 )   
   
Regarding the "I did once" - I remember when the idea of people going to Mexico was synonymous with prostitution. I think it gets woven into their conversation as unfair fighting. Not an entirely detached way to hurt someone but parallel to the bloody-nose brawl they had that led to the forever entwined 2-shirt memento. Jack is frustrated to always have to wait for Ennis to say "no" we can't be together this month, this season, never live together. It was no surprise to me that he would throw in a statement to make him jealous and try to spur him to realize other men have been in the picture as a sucker punch.

I agree with your interpretation. The short story is very similar to the screenplay during this scene, but adds some additional insight:

Like vast clouds of steam from thermal springs in winter the years of things unsaid and now unsayable -- admissions, declarations, shames, guilts, fears -- rose around them. Ennis stood as if heart-shot, face grey and deep-lined, grimacing, eyes screwed shut, fists clenched, legs caving, hit the ground on his knees.

....they torqued things almost to where they had been, for what they said was no news. Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved.

It's these kinds of scenes that make this movie so realistic and tragic.

Diane

"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em" - Ennis, BBM

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: I did once.   
  by mark-1589   (Fri Jan 5 2007 23:34:58 )   
   
I understand the dynamics of this scene somewhat differently. It is a pivotal scene because it marks a major turning point in their relationship. Their ongoing relationship was built upon an uneasy compromise that involved an absolute refusal to acknowledge what they were doing for what it was - sex between men. Ennis simply could not come to terms with this. As was shown by their first meeting after their first chance encounter, they categorized it as some "one shot deal", a strange "thing" that came over them on Brokeback ("Brokeback got us good"). After a four year absence (or more likely sometime in the intervening years), Ennis realizes he needs Jack, but he can only do it while maintaining the illusion that they aint queer. So this is the deal on Ennis' side, and Jack goes along with it even though he wants more - alot more. He repeatedly proposes they move in together, but Ennis squelches it with silly arguments like I got my life here and you got yours there, etc., the more pertinent argument being societal rejection of it and gay bashing - "two men living together - no way". Keep in mind the point that Jack makes at this final argument that Ennis used to be open to meeting him often, but is now harder to see than the Pope. The reason is because, when he was married, it was easier for him to hide from himself the reality of what he was doing. More than being a "beard" for the outside world, Alma was a "beard" for Ennis himself. Once she divorced him, he was even less comfortable with the idea of being with Jack, despite the fact that it would then have been easy to see him often (if Ennis had wanted him around, Jack surely could have divorced Lureen and moved back to Wyoming).

So, to return to my original point, Ennis and Jack have an unstable deal. They meet every once in a while, but act as if it is not what it is (don't speak about it that way). For Jack to bring up his proposal of living together represents for Ennis a breach of their unspoken deal. THIS is the REASON Ennis goes ballistic, not because of jealousy, but because Jack exposed the reality of who they were and what they had been doing all those years. This is why Ennis takes the nuclear option, by accusing JACK of being QUEER (what they had going between them was something different, but going off with boys in Mexico means that Jack is queer, which Ennis cannot tolerate - it dispels the illusion of who they are). Ennis' "threat" (I don't think Ennis was serious that he would kill him - some have even suggested that it was in fact Ennis who killed Jack) was rather just a warning - cool it and don't go there now or ever. Instead of heeding that warning Jack persists and expounds upon how hard it is for him to get by with the little sex Ennis gives him and that he needs the "comfort of strangers" so to speak. This just blows up their unspoken agreement. Jack has totally unmasked their relationship and stuck it into Ennis' face. This is why Ennis then breaks down, because he is being confronted with the reality of his life and it is not a pretty picture. He revolved his whole life around being able to maintain this relationship with Jack, even though he tries to keep it at a minimum. This is why he accuses Jack of being to blame - its because of you that I am nothing and nowhere.

Well, that's the way I see it. There are some problems with this interpretation, such as the fact that Ennis still wrote Jack about meeting in November, which means their blowup did not have the effect of making Ennis reject Jack (perhaps he was hoping that blowup would blow over and they could go back to their previous unstable compromise). Perhaps it's an indication and admission that he simply doesn't want to lose Jack, even despite Jack making reality too clear to him. Still the blowup affected Ennis in one way that we see. I think it clearly was the motivation for his breakup with Cassie. It made him at least see the reality that he was using here as a "beard" so that he would not have to face up to the reality of his life. After seeing how much he had hurt Jack (and Alma too), he probably realized he had to put an end to it, so he just stopped seeing her. It hurt her, but clearly less then she would have been hurt had he married her. As for Jack, it is anybody's guess how the blowup affected him. The film suggests that he gave up on Ennis and had decided to start a life with someone else - Randall or whoever. Perhaps his death (if it was from gay bashing) was due to the fact that, freed from a sense of obligation to Ennis, he went overboard in seeking male companionship and fatally exposed himself (we saw earlier how his try at the rodeo clown was so transparent).

Re: I did once.   
  by Shasta254   (Sat Jan 6 2007 05:08:52 )   
   
Mark 1589---I really like your above post. It makes a lot of points that I hadn't thought of in quite the way you put them. Interesting. Thanks.

"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"

Re: I did once.   
  by mark-1589   (Sun Jan 7 2007 10:03:04 )   
   
Thanx! I'm glad you found it interesting. I'm curious if other posters consider this a viable interpretation of what happened. I hadn't noticed about the shirt button.

Re: I did once.   
  by norway-jm   (Sun Jan 7 2007 10:40:33 )   

Having been the Jack in a Jack/Ennis relationship (only four years, but the same thing... stealing away a few times a year and trying to cram in everything a relationship is supposed to be in "never enough time, never enough..."), I have always taken a different view of the "high-altitude *beeps*" line.

To me, he's not really talking about a lack of sex. He's saying "you might be satisfied with how limited our relationship is, but I'm not. I want--NEED--more from you than getting together a few times a year, having sex, and then saying goodbye again." He's saying that "a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year" is not enough for him in terms of their relationship... that this is what their relationship now boils down to, and the last time they really were close was on Brokeback Mountain. Now it's just become a few drive-by *beeps*, and that's not enough for Jack. He wants a real relationship, and to spend quality time with Ennis, as opposed to a series of one-night stands. The fact that Ennis doesn't want this depresses Jack to the point of being driven into the arms of others for comfort.

Re: I did once.   
  by ClancyPantsNasty   (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:07:00 )   
   
Hi norway-jm --

"To me, he's not really talking about a lack of sex. He's saying "you might be satisfied with how limited our relationship is, but I'm not. I want--NEED--more from you than getting together a few times a year, having sex, and then saying goodbye again." He's saying that "a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year" is not enough for him in terms of their relationship... that this is what their relationship now boils down to, and the last time they really were close was on Brokeback Mountain. Now it's just become a few drive-by *beeps*, and that's not enough for Jack. He wants a real relationship, and to spend quality time with Ennis, as opposed to a series of one-night stands."

Yes, yes, yes, and YES!

This is exactly how I have always taken that comment. Emotional love v. the sexual expression of it. Thus follows the dozy embrace... same thing. You put it into very nice words.

...just a couple more are worth it... yes, yes, and YES!


Re: I did once.   
  by norway-jm   (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:15:25 )   
   
YES, Clancy! He's not saying "I need more *beeps* than the few I get from you," he's saying "I need more from you than a few *beeps*"! He's saying "I can't make it IN THIS RELATIONSHIP if this is all it's going to be, a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year. I need more from you, more OF you."

Ain't never enough time, never enough...

Re: I did once.   
  by ClancyPantsNasty   (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:35:50 )   
   
YES, norway-jm, YES

A shared and sexless hunger he craved.

Re: I did once.   
  by adpaduch   (Sat Jan 6 2007 18:14:36 )   
   
This is truly a wonderful scene, portrays the frustration and the pain that both of these characters have been living with for almost 20 years. Watching it again this week though, my eyes keep focusing on Jake's shirt collar. Watch and see if you notice what I did.

Life's too short, babe, time is flying
I'm looking for baggage that goes with mine.

Re: I did once.   
  by Shasta254   (Sat Jan 6 2007 18:19:08 )   
   
Haha--now I am curious. Here I go to look. BRB.

"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"

Re: I did once.   
  by Shasta254   (Sat Jan 6 2007 18:32:31 )   
   
Well, I noticed that his shirt is buttoned, then not buttoned, then buttoned again. I don't think that's what you meant though. What was it?

"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"

Re: I did once.   
  by adpaduch   (Sat Jan 6 2007 19:02:37 )   
   
Yeah that's all i meant. Sorry to disappoint.

Life's too short, babe, time is flying
I'm looking for baggage that goes with mine.

Re: I did once.   
  by Shasta254   (Sat Jan 6 2007 19:09:50 )   
   
UPDATED Sat Jan 6 2007 19:10:31
LOL---No it was cool. I just thought you meant that it was something about his collar. I kept looking for make-up or holes in the collar itself. I really liked seeing what you were talking about. I have seen the movie 30-40 times, and never noticed that! Thanks for pointing it out. I wonder why that happened? Different filming times?

"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"

Re: I did once.   
  by adpaduch   (Sat Jan 6 2007 21:59:35 )   
   
I guess it kind of bummed me out because I always thought that maybe it was a one take thing and it obviously wasn't. I was reading all the goofs on the IMDB BBM page and that one wasn't listed.

Life's too short, babe, time is flying
I'm looking for baggage that goes with mine.

[Brown Eyes]

Yay!!!  This is one of the all-time brilliant analysis threads.  I love the complicated analysis that's possible of such a deceptively simple sentence as "I did once."  The fact that the use of the past tense here is so significant is amazing.  Thanks for re-posting it here.  These old threads really are a stroll down memory lane.
 

[ifyoucantfixit]

  by santsa70   (Wed Mar 29 2006 10:34:33 )  
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In a thread with 85 posts I'm sure this idea has already been shared, but I personally thought it made Ennis mad the same way it would make any person in an argument mad. Jack's saying he once had a plan that could have worked but never came to be because Ennis wouldn't let it. To me, its just one of those things someone says in order to pass the blame on the other guy, and even if Jack doesn't mean it in that way, that's how Ennis takes it. He believes Jack is saying he is to blame.
 
  by ClancyPantsNasty   (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:07:00 )  
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Hi norway-jm --

"To me, he's not really talking about a lack of sex. He's saying "you might be satisfied with how limited our relationship is, but I'm not. I want--NEED--more from you than getting together a few times a year, having sex, and then saying goodbye again." He's saying that "a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year" is not enough for him in terms of their relationship... that this is what their relationship now boils down to, and the last time they really were close was on Brokeback Mountain. Now it's just become a few drive-by *beeps*, and that's not enough for Jack. He wants a real relationship, and to spend quality time with Ennis, as opposed to a series of one-night stands."

Yes, yes, yes, and YES!

This is exactly how I have always taken that comment. Emotional love v. the sexual expression of it. Thus follows the dozy embrace... same thing. You put it into very nice words.

...just a couple more are worth it... yes, yes, and YES!


Re: I did once.  
  by norway-jm   (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:15:25 )  
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YES, Clancy! He's not saying "I need more *beeps* than the few I get from you," he's saying "I need more from you than a few *beeps*"! He's saying "I can't make it IN THIS RELATIONSHIP if this is all it's going to be, a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year. I need more from you, more OF you."

Ain't never enough time, never enough...
Re: I did once.  
  by ClancyPantsNasty   (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:35:50 )  
 
I too agree with the statements made here.
    I always thought Jack was very irritated all the years of their relationship, about the scarce amount of time he was allowed.  Ennis making all the rules, and deciding when and where they could meet.  They must have settled on a routine that he at least could depend on as regular and tolerable.  But he was always reminded of the fact that Ennis never sought other men.  He was also aware certainly that Ennis was a very possessive person.  Known by the remark he makes "the short fuching leash you keep me on."  So he was always careful to skirt the issues of his association with others.  Such as the way he said "ranch formans wife," instead of ranch forman.  He was well aware of Ennis's temper as well after so many years im sure.  However when he saw the time he has come to depend on, being changed, it just set him off.  He makes the natural response to Ennis's question.  "You got a better idea?"  He retorts with "I did once."  To me that is pretty straight forward.  Ennis really has no good response for that, and then hooks into the thing that has obviously been knocking at the back of his mind..When Jack mentions going to Mexico for the warm weather, he let pass the fact that he "had heard what they got in Mexico for boys like you."  Now he is unloading his threats on Jack to keep him back in line..In other words you better not be doing that Jack Twist.  I wont stand for it.  etc.  and then the rest of the scene plays out.  And it left the last line he makes, as ambigious at best "I just can't stand this anymore Jack."  To me that leaves a possibllity of a change in the status quo.  However we will never know.