Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

Jack Twist's Mother Believed in the Pentecost - POV from a real Pentecostal

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TJ:
At the suggestion of Roland, one of the moderators, I created a discussion topic thread related the Pentecost.

Some people don't know that "Pentecost" does not have an 'a' in it. "Pentecost" means "fifty." Please note that I did not create this thread to have those Believers in Jesus the Christ to be flamed by those who don't approve of "Christians."

Here is a quote from the Annie Proulx short story which was published in books regarding the mention of "Pentecost."


--- Quote ---The summer went on and they moved the herd to new pasture, shifted the camp; the distance between the sheep and the new camp was greater and the night ride longer.
Ennis rode easy, sleeping with his eyes open, but the hours he was away from the sheep stretched out and out. Jack pulled a squalling burr out of the harmonica, flattened a little from a fall off the skittish bay mare, and Ennis had a good raspy voice; a few nights they mangled their way through some songs. Ennis knew the salty words to "Strawberry Roan." Jack tried a Carl Perkins song, bawling "what I say-ay-ay," but he favored a sad hymn, "Water-Walking Jesus," learned from his mother who believed in the Pentecost, that he sang at dirge slowness, setting off distant coyote yips.
--- End quote ---


I will add more to the discussion as time progresses.  I am openly gay and just as openly Pentecostal and the only closet which I have is a "prayer closet," which just means that while I do pray in church, I don't pray in public to attract attention to myself. I am evangelical; but, I am not a fundamentalist. Even Jesus got a lot of flack from the religious right Pharisees because he was not exactly a fundamentalist Jew either.

TJ:
I do own/moderate a Yahoo Group for Pentecostal Gays and Lesbians who are Trinitarian in the doctrinal beliefs. As you can see below, it is not limited to gays only.

I call it The Country Church of Good News. Here is the link:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Country_Church_of_Good_News/


--- Quote ---Title:    The Country Church of Good News 
Description:    Since this group is for those mentally mature ADULT men and women who are OUT-OF-THE CLOSET,   Believers (aka "Christians") who belong to the Faith in Jesus the Christ community (called "The Way" in the Bible), your name [legal or nickname], your adult age, your location [City and State or City and Country, Please!], and your  gender(male or female) must be listed on the Yahoo! Profile webpage linked to your Yahoo! ID for this group!

An open discussion and support group for members who are OUT-OF THE CLOSET and accept all people just as they are and open about being Believers in Jesus the Christ, too.

To Evangelize means to "Announce the Good News!" Jesus said, "Let whosoever come unto Me." You are a whosoever, no matter if you self-identify as one who is gay, lesbian, bisexual, heterosexual, transsexual, transgender, or Intersex. 
--- End quote ---

 
I do post messages related to Brokeback Mountain in the Country Church group.

TJ:
I posted the reply below in another location originally.


--- Quote from: hopefulheart on April 22, 2006, 03:06:29 pm --- I love Jack's mom because she allowed herself to acknowledge and accept the relationship between her son and Ennis. As a Pentecostal woman-that was a couragous thing to do. I grew up in the Pentecostal church. Let me tell you, homosexuality is about the worst "sin" in their view. There are some wonderful aspects of the church. But tolerance is not one of them. My grandmother and my father were two of the most honest and decent people i have ever known. They tried to live the best life they could. They followed the Pentcostal dogma though. So sadly, they missed the experience of knowing people of many beliefs and walks of life-because those people didnt conform to the church's view of what was "right".

--- End quote ---

I do like the way that Roberta Maxwell portrayed Jack Twist's movie mother, even though she does/says some things in the movie that are slightly different than in Annie Proulx's original short story.

If Jack Twist's mother was a Pentecostal as Roberta Maxwell said, more than likely she would have been a Trinitarian Pentecostal who either had attended an independent Pentecostal church or a denominational one like an Assembly of God.

I have non-trinitarian Pentecostal relatives who belong to United Pentecostal Church International congregations. When they say "the Pentecostal Church," they are only talking about their own denomination which claims that it is not THE only Pentecostal church God recognizes, it is the only denomination that God recognizes. The "United" in the denominational name refers to that some congregations and preachers split from the General Council of the Assemblies of God and united themselves with the One-ness/Jesus-Name-Only Pentecostal church. The UPCI does not approve of women having short hairdos.

I grew up attending a variety of Pentecostal churches, some independent and some denominational. The only people whom I knew grew up in any church, literally speaking, LOL, were those whose families lived in residence, someplace in the church building.

My parents were Pentecostal before they got married. Mom had become Pentecostal by experience in a church which later became an AG. And Dad became Pentecostal in an independent Oneness Pentecostal church which most of Mom's relatives attended in the community of Tiawah, south of Claremore, Oklahoma. We started attending mostly AG churches after I was 4 years old and my father even pastored the Washington Community Assembly of God in rural Rogers County NE of Claremore when I was in the 4th & 5th grades.

I have mentioned in other forums, besides the "BetterMost" one, that "If Jack's mother had taught Jack the sad hymn 'Water-Walking Jesus,' more than likely she would have either taught what Pentecost meant or he would have learned it himself in Sunday School and church. In the small town/community & country Pentecostal churches that I attended while I was growing up, the non-regular church attending husband had respect for his wife's beliefs. And, if they had children, including sons, the father usually sent them to church services with their mother, even if he had to drive the car or truck to make sure they got there.

The "Water-Walking Jesus" was probably a song title that Annie Proulx made up for her story. And, while James McMurty actually wrote the limited lyrics as sung by Jack, credit for the song was given to her and  Larry McMurtry, too.

From my own very personal POV as a practicing Pentecostal by choice and by experience, I think that the implied song in the book had to do with one of the pre-Easter "Good Friday" stories since it was a "sad hymn." J. McMurtry's version made it into a "Rapture Me (take me away) Jesus" song to fit the movie script.

While the AG congregations did sing classical church hymns back in the 1950s and 1960s, more than likely Jack's song would have been what is called "Southern Gospel" since that singing style was more popular with Pentecostal churches. Jack and Ennis could have known Stuart Hamblin's "This Ol' House" (a "Rapture" song) and "It Is No Secret." Hamblin used to have a Hollywood based radio program called "Cowboy Church of the Air." The gospel songs he wrote were based on classical Western Ballads as far as the music was concerned.

My mother was an okay singer when singing with others as in a choir, but, she was not that on-key when she sang by her self. And, Jack's mother could have done like my mother when doing household chores, Mom sang church songs or even made up some while doing house work and especially when doing dishes in the kitchen.

Sheriff Roland:

--- Quote from: TJ on May 03, 2006, 07:37:37 pm ---Please note that I did not create this thread to have those Believers in Jesus the Christ to be flamed by those who don't approve of "Christians."
--- End quote ---

TJ - to paraphrase - When you came aboard here at bettermost, you were reborn!  :D -

OK, the analogy may be all screwed up, but my point is, you're at bettermost here, not at IMDb! trolls are not tolerated here. Should there be any lack of respect here the moderators WILL do something about it. And unlike IMDb, threads don't get deleted unless they are inappropriate. Rest assured, you are welcome here, and soon the IMDb nightmare will disappear from your concerns. after all - WE are family here!

TJ:
Oh, Roland, it was not to an "IMDb nightmare," to which I was making a reference, it was on the davecullen.com forum where I got "flamed" by a forum member (I even got banned from there). I did very little posting on the IMDb site.

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