I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by shesanopenmouth (Wed Dec 13 2006 11:23:40 )
I'm reposting this most-popular thread. It made national news (google it), and got so many responses (1000+) it was eventually dropped. Here it is for those of you who missed it:
I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
UPDATED Tue Dec 20 2005 22:27:58
I've always been somewhat reluctant to come down hard on homosexuals (in social situations with other church-goers or with my Republican friends at political events). I'm just not the type to judge others out of spite. I've never really known anyone close to me that's gay, although I've met a few people here and there at my work that later I was told were.
Last weekend, I was in Dallas and - to make a long story short - I ended up "having" to see this film. It definitely was NOT my choice to do so, but to avoid a confrontation, I relented. Everybody makes this sort of compromise sooner or later, right? If the film we wanted to see hadn't been sold out, I don't think I'd ever have seen "Brokeback Mountain."
It's been four days since I saw the film, and progressively, day after day, I have been forced to admit that I am ashamed of the way I felt about homosexuals. I literally had no concept of what life is truly like for these individuals, and must continue to be. In my heart I know that good, wholesome, long-standing friends of mine - true-believing Christians - have made life horrible for these people when they go out of their way to bad mouth them behind their backs (no one I know I think would get in someone's face), tell their children homosexuals are going to Hell, etc etc.
I can't explain what I'm feeling, but I haven't had this kind of doubt (about the church I go to) since I made the decision a long, long time ago to leave the family business against my father's wishes. I also didn't go into the same branch of the armed forces that he went into. Which is another story. In a way, I guess, my own personal history and my relationship with a disapproving (and uneducated) father somehow made me "get" what Heath Ledger's character goes through. Let me just say that a lot of heartache was involved. The God I believe in, that I teach my kids to trust, would never wish the kind of pain that I went through on anyone, which really I now know for real, is the same kind of pain homosexuals must go through just to live what for them is an honest life, and the choice they must make. I'd never had my eyes opened to this before, not ONE IOTA.
Tonight, winding down, I said a little prayer. It was more or less the same thing that's been going round and round inside my head since I saw this movie... who am I to judge? I honestly was trembling at one point during the credits before we got up to leave, and I had to struggle to re-gain my composure. Now that I am remembering that, it reminds me of the way I trembled when I first asked God to forgive me of my sins and accept me as I am.
"Brokeback Mountain" humbled me.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by ednbarby (Wed Dec 13 2006 11:47:33 )
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Such a wonderful post, especially the final two paragraphs.
Thanks for reposting that, shes. Love you handle, by the way.
Hell, that's the most I spoke in a year.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by Ultraviolet360 (Wed Dec 13 2006 11:49:23 )
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Thanks for re-posting it. and letting me be able to read it. it truly is beautiful how brokeback mountian has openedpeoples eyes to the gay communtiy and what they go through to just live their lives.
thank you.
You know, it could be this way. Just like this, always.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by balrog_ressurected_again (Wed Dec 13 2006 21:28:18 )
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Wait a minute, is this the one posted by 'thebeesucksass'? Back in December or so?
Isn't this the post that Anne Hathaway made mention of?
Begone trolls...
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by shesanopenmouth (Thu Dec 14 2006 08:29:07 )
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yes, and yes. it was also picked up by salon.com and dailykos.com, etc.
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Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by shesanopenmouth (Tue Dec 19 2006 20:56:20 )
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yea
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by Hopeagain (Wed Dec 20 2006 02:09:01 )
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That was a great post.
There is no doubt that God has specifically stated we shouldnt judge anybody. But the thing about homosexuality is that God has forbidden the practice of it as detestable.
I may never judge a homosexual as a person but we cannot deny that for a man to live/lie with a man as he should do with a woman is a complete and total aberration, and more I also object to homosexuals forcing this down everybody's throat to accept this as normal.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by Tyler_Durden_pt (Wed Dec 20 2006 02:37:27 )
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UPDATED Wed Dec 20 2006 02:44:28
I came to this board to check whether someone had opinions on the film itself (although I didn't love the film, I did like the Herzog-esque look and feel), but apparently there are more interesting and funnier aspects discussed here. This thread is hilarious.
The title is an amazingly funny post-modernist joke:
"I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind"
But your own post is even funnier.
"the thing about homosexuality is that God has forbidden the practice of it as detestable." The idea of a god with a political stand on homosexuality is hilarious, especially when you're living in the 21st century.
"I may never judge a homosexual as a person but we cannot deny that for a man to live/lie with a man as he should do with a woman is a complete and total aberration"
You do know that is a paradox, don't you?
"and more I also object to homosexuals forcing this down everybody's throat to accept this as normal."
This is probably your only worthy statement. I agree. Many homosexuals seem to make an issue out of displaying pride in their sexual condition as if it's something other people need to know, which is lame and probably contributes to prejudice. I'm a heterosexual male myself but I don't see the point in going around showing I want to have sex with women like there was no tomorrow.
The void is a mirror.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Wed Dec 20 2006 04:21:05 )
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"The idea of a god with a political stand on homosexuality is hilarious, especially when you're living in the 21st century. "
You may want to travel a bit more . But be careful , in most countries people will consider that you are the hilarious one .
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by Tyler_Durden_pt (Wed Dec 20 2006 04:39:36 )
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UPDATED Wed Dec 20 2006 04:41:58
"You may want to travel a bit more"
Well, if we were in the Middle Ages, also known as the "Dark Ages", it would probably be acceptable to say that a God actually exists and has opinions on human homosexuality. In a 21st century Western context, it's pretty ridiculous, sorry.
"in most countries people will consider that you are the hilarious one"
I'm sure they will. Then again, in most countries people have no freedom of thought, let alone choice. These are people who do not know what the word "freedom" means. As we all know, ideologies are rammed down into people's heads. These people are, I suppose, living their own Dark Ages.
A man who can't think and feel things for himself, is a beaten into submission animal, a "cow in the field", a monkey in a cage.
The void is a mirror.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Wed Dec 20 2006 07:16:23 )
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"In a 21st century Western context, it's pretty ridiculous, sorry."
This century is actually witnessing a decline of western power - so the context will be replaced as a result .
"a "cow in the field", a monkey in a cage."
I'm sure the enlightened ancient world thought the same while being erased from history by barbarians .
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by Tyler_Durden_pt (Wed Dec 20 2006 08:25:12 )
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UPDATED Wed Dec 20 2006 08:28:23
"This century is actually witnessing a decline of western power - so the context will be replaced as a result."
Fair enough, but reasonable human beings will always exist, whether we are 1 out of every 2 or 1 out of one million. Scientific and philosophical advances based on human reason are today more than enough to destroy theories such as: the existence of a deity which has moral views or political opinions on a given subject, in this case homosexuality.
"I'm sure the enlightened ancient world thought the same while being erased from history by barbarians"
Errr.. ancient Rome and Greece weren't erased from History - all history books tell their stories and advances. Modern society is based on their models.
The void is a mirror.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Thu Dec 21 2006 05:26:43 )
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UPDATED Thu Dec 21 2006 05:30:56
"whether we are 1 out of every 2 or 1 out of one million."
Are they relevant in such numbers ?
" to destroy theories such as: the existence of a deity which has moral views or political opinions "
Really ? Do you know what existed before out universe ?
"all history books tell their stories and advances"
Who's remembering earlier societies ? Time fades even memory .
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by Tyler_Durden_pt (Thu Dec 21 2006 05:48:19 )
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UPDATED Thu Dec 21 2006 05:55:24
"Are they relevant in such numbers?"
Yes. History shows that often times minorities have the most reasonable and realistic views on political, moral or any other type of subjects. Or are you trying to say Reason and Freedom of thought are aspects of human existence that only have relevance if they are backed up by the political/moral majority?
"Do you know what existed before out universe ?"
No, but then again neither does anybody else. I never said I don't believe in the broad idea of a God existing, but I sure as hell do not believe there is a divine, interventionist, all-powerful entitty with political and moral views on what would be very trite aspects of human existence (such as homosexuality) from the perspective of a such an entity.
I mean, do you really believe that an entity which created something as huge and complex as the Universe we know would care about whether some organic beings on one of the millions of millions of planets take it up the ass? No offense to homosexuals, but I don't think that God cares, even if he does exist.
"Time fades even memory"
Neh. If you pick up a History book and read it you'll find there were many good, reasonable people throughout History. Knowing History is knowing what future we want for the world we live in. Do we want a world dominated by religious and political fundamentalism and extremism (with the usual rates of death and amount of suffering), or a world of peace, mutual respect and freedom of thought and speech?
The void is a mirror.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by dav0001 (Thu Dec 21 2006 12:14:02 )
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Tyler, I just have to say..I like you. We all know what a nincompoop Admajorette is, but not all of us, as in me, have the knowledge and education to prove that pretty much everything he posts is a bunch of hooey based on his own thoughts and fears, not fact.
I like the part about how a diety that creates something as complex as the universe really cares if some guy takes it up the ass, and there was absolutely no offense taken by that comment. That said it rather succinctly.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Thu Dec 21 2006 13:19:35 )
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"History shows that often times minorities have the most reasonable and realistic views on political, moral or any other type of subjects"
But does their opinion matter ? For example , are christians taken into account in Turkey ( or the jews in Iran for that matter , or the muslims in China ) ? Minorities are more than often ignored by a non-western society .
"but I sure as hell do not believe there is a divine, interventionist, all-powerful entitty "
Well , we all have free will to believe what we want .
"Knowing History is knowing what future we want for the world we live in."
And yet ancient history is irrelevant after a certain amount of time - just look at Egypt , the maya or the old mesopotamian cultures - their legacy was simply replaced by newer ideas .
"or a world of peace, mutual respect and freedom of thought and speech? "
The western bubble is shrinking , and authoritarian societies are filling the void - simply because they reproduce themselves .
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by Tyler_Durden_pt (Thu Dec 21 2006 14:49:09 )
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"Well , we all have free will to believe what we want ."
Got that right.
Ok, keep your political god if that makes you happier. Who cares.
The void is a mirror.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Fri Dec 22 2006 02:07:49 )
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"Who cares."
The ones who bother to reply
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by Tyler_Durden_pt (Fri Dec 22 2006 02:15:33 )
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I tried to figure out why you do (believe in a political god). I'm not worried whether you do or not.
The void is a mirror.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by dav0001 (Thu Dec 21 2006 23:27:28 )
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I love it! Apparently you don't disagree that often times minorities views are more reasonable and realistic, but you say those views don't matter. So what you're saying is that unrealistic and unreasonable views on things are what really matter. You are such a pinhead.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Fri Dec 22 2006 02:11:18 )
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"Apparently you don't disagree that often times minorities views are more reasonable and realistic"
It depends on the minority - some are downright dangerous to any society .
"So what you're saying is that unrealistic and unreasonable views on things are what really matter. "
Might makes right - but only in this material world .
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by Wilson79 (Fri Dec 22 2006 05:24:00 )
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"Apparently you don't disagree that often times minorities views are more reasonable and realistic"
It depends on the minority - some are downright dangerous to any society .
Wow Admaj you and Hitler think alike
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Fri Dec 22 2006 07:11:09 )
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"Wow Admaj you and Hitler think alike"
So NAMBLA is harmless ?
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by Wilson79 (Fri Dec 22 2006 07:26:06 )
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"Wow Admaj you and Hitler think alike"
So NAMBLA is harmless ?
NAMBLA is not harmless but they are not considered a minority...they are an orgaization. According to the dictionary a minority is a group differing, esp. in race, religion, or ethnic background, from the majority of a population.
Nice try Hitler wannabe
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Fri Dec 22 2006 09:04:57 )
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"they are an orgaization"
That includes only members of a certain minority .
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by dav0001 (Fri Dec 22 2006 12:13:01 )
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It's fun to watch ho many different ways Addie will try to weedle his way out of admitting someone else is right because as we all know anything Addie says is right, because it's "the word". I agree with the others. You're the closest thing to Hitler that been seen in a long time. You think might makes right? So that means if I come over to where you are and smack you around I'm right? Sounds good to me.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Sat Dec 23 2006 01:06:35 )
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"You think might makes right?"
Nope - but heathens do .
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by dav0001 (Sat Dec 23 2006 01:38:14 )
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Excuse me, it wasn't heathens who posted that statement on this board. It was you. And remember you claim you're always right. Nice attempt at a dodge kiddo, but it didn't work.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by Maraya1969 (Wed Jan 24 2007 21:31:51 )
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"Hopeagain" if you really want to believe that homosexuality is an aberration than you must have plucked out both eyes by now because they surely have caused you to sin and you must be armless also.
I could go on and on but the truth is some "Christians" interpret verses that they find unacceptable and proclaim others to be the literal word of God.
So why do you do it? I truly believe that some do it because they want to feel superior because they don't happen to be homosexual so it is an easy way to bully. So many Christians are OBSESSED with homosexuals! When they should be worrying about adultery, greed, sloth, gluttony and coveting your neighbor's wife, (or envy if you will.....not celebrating at other's good fortune)
Remember the Bible has been TRANSLATED numerous times! And the concept of being saved by faith did not even come around until around 1517 with Martin Luther.
So please stop the aberration junk. You don't know OK? And it is hypocritical for you to say you do.
I do know one that and that is back in biblical days man power was extremely important. When I went to Israel I was amazed at the geological digs where one civilization is layered on top of another and then another and another. They all conquered each other. So "laying with the same sex" would certainly be frowned upon because it was unproductive because it did not make babies.
If you would think deeply about what your actions and beliefs do to other people, people who are children of God just like you, you would realize that you are the one who is sinning because you preach and teach hate and judgement.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by AdMajoremDeiGloriam (Thu Jan 25 2007 03:49:10 )
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"verses that they find unacceptable"
Please , indulge me and explain that - or are you confusing the OT with the NT perchance ?
"Remember the Bible has been TRANSLATED numerous times! "
I presume you checked the greek original and the Church Fathers then - in order to avoid any misunderstanding
"And the concept of being saved by faith did not even come around until around 1517 "
So genuine christian doctrine appeared around 1517 ? How amusing ...
"people who are children of God just like you"
Not all of them
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
"judgement."
The Word is judging us .
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
"hate"
We are told to hate the enemy .
Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
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by Maraya1969 (Thu Jan 25 2007 23:21:24 )
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UPDATED Thu Jan 25 2007 23:24:57
To Admajorem Dei
"verses that they find unacceptable"
Please , indulge me and explain that - or are you confusing the OT with the NT perchance ?
"I was refering to the verses such as plucking out your eye. Have you plucked out your eyes yet? Or do sins only apply to other people?"
"Remember the Bible has been TRANSLATED numerous times! "
I presume you checked the greek original and the Church Fathers then - in order to avoid any misunderstanding
"NO I haven't. I know their was not a word "homosexual" back then. And yes the bible has been translated numerous times and you cannot tell me for certain that different translators did not put their own thoughts, beliefs and biases into their translation."
"And the concept of being saved by faith did not even come around until around 1517 "
So genuine christian doctrine appeared around 1517 ? How amusing ...
General Christian doctrine has been around but the "Born again" belief has only been around since Martin Luther. Consider the Amish. They do not believe in a "saved by grace" type of religion but they follow the bible more than any others that I know. They are peaceful, forgiving, simple and not judgemental. That is the message of Jesus.
"people who are children of God just like you"
Not all of them
You're hatred and judmental mind set is showing. Not a very good example of a follower of Jesus I would say. Do you really think Jesus would say that not all people are children of God?
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
"judgement."
"LUST" DOES NOT ONLY REFER TO SEX. CHECK IT OUT IN THE DICTIONARY! You can lust over POWER, ,MONEY, HATE, GREED AND OTHER SINS! YOU may be the one who is lusting here sir!
The Word is judging us .
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
"hate"
We are told to hate the enemy .
Again, you hate the enemy in your own self. The enemy of lustful judgement, need to feed your ego, greed and hate
Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
If you love all you will not "hate the one" or "despise the other"
Don't you get it? You're heart is filled with hate. If you want to be healed you need to ask for the LOVE OF JESUS to fill your heart, not the hate of your ego.
Re: I'm a Conservative Christian and This Film Changed My Mind
by kudzudaddy (Wed Dec 20 2006 06:19:54 )
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Hello everyone,
I'm an old-timer. I don't post much anymore, content to lurk.
I remember this post well.
I hate to burst everyone's bubble
but...
It was a hoax. The original poster (thebeesucksass)acknowledged this in a post somewhere around the time when the thread passed the 700 response mark. I may have saved the thread -- if I can find it, I'll post it in its entirety. You mustn't feel bad, however, we all fell for it. And I'm not sure that the fact that it was a hoax (what kind of fundamentalist Christian would choose a screen name like "thebeesucksass?"), in any way renders the thread invalid.
It was a powerful, impassioned thread despite it's dishonest genesis and definitely worth reading. If I recall correctly, there were even several others who echoed the OP's (phony) sentiments who recounted similar apotheoses. The debate/discussion that followed was exhilarating and often profound.
As a long-time Brokie (just celebrated my "anniversary" on Dec. 19th) I wanted to set the record straight.
PS: Just caught it by chance on HBO... is there a more romantic scene in screen history than the second tent scene? How can anyone watch that and claim Jack and Ennis were never in love?
"...careless where the next bright bolt might fall."
Maybe it's romantic if you're a gay male
by fontainemoore (Thu Dec 21 2006 13:40:25 )
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But as a straight female, it didn't do it for me. Where I got the love was NOT in that scene (which seemed more like lust) but in the ongoing nature of their relationship. It was time and endurance that revealed the depth of their love for me.
I can think of many other films that felt far more romantic to me. The "I'm flying, Jack" in Titanic--though irritatingly repetitive at this point--blew me away when I first saw it. But I suppose it's a matter of how one prefers one's romance--regardless of gender-based sexual preference.
Re: Maybe it's romantic if you're a gay male
by ladycricket (Sat Dec 23 2006 02:10:03 )
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I'm glad the film helps people see the variety in human nature. And plus we're not all religious or for those that are, not to such extremes that we can't see beyond the box, as it were.
