The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
Dream Interpretation
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on January 15, 2020, 09:44:16 pm ---I guess the nature of the social breakdown in the book reminds me of the Stanford Prison Experiment. Are you all familiar with it, and if so did you know it's been pretty thoroughly debunked?
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The name sounds vaguely familiar. I think I read about it somewhere, once, but I don't remember anything about it.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on January 15, 2020, 10:47:33 pm ---The name sounds vaguely familiar. I think I read about it somewhere, once, but I don't remember anything about it.
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If you're not familiar with it, you probably won't be interested in the details, but here goes. When I was in college, I took every psychology and sociology class I could get my hands on. So you'd learn about the Stanford Prison Experiment in Psych 101 and probably other courses as well. In 1971 a Stanford professor divided male students into "guards" and "inmates" and put them in a building together instructed to perform those roles. The guards got slightly brutal (nothing huge or tragic) and the inmates wanted to get the hell out of there, understandably. But now there's evidence the professor had at least subtly coached them -- perhaps not even deliberately but somehow let them understand what he hoped to see happen in the experiment. So they knew what was expected of them. Other conditions also weren't sufficiently empirical (e.g., no control group) and one "guard" even said he was deliberately imitating something he'd seen in the Paul Newman prison movie "Hud."
But for years it was used as evidence that people who follow authorities' orders to exert power over others (the guards) can turn violent and evil. Well, yeah, just like if a theater director tells you, the actor playing the guard, to act bad and evil, you will act bad and evil. Even if the director doesn't say it that explicitly, but it's still obvious that's the role he wants you to play.
The experiment, as well as, I think, the Stanley Milgram shock experiment, too (which may not have been empirically flawed; can't remember) were designed to try to explain Nazi and how people commit otherwise uncharacteristic brutality if so ordered. Well, Nazis kind of explain that phenomenon better than this experiment did. It's one thing acting nasty to please your professor and another being OK with herding people into ... well, you know. So why not say, Nazis showed it can happen ... because, well, it happened?
Jeff Wrangler:
Thanks. I've definitely heard of the Milgram experiment.
The Paul Newman prison movie is Cool Hand Luke. Hud is a different film (based on a Larry McMurtry novel, incidentally).
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on January 16, 2020, 01:19:08 pm ---Thanks. I've definitely heard of the Milgram experiment.
The Paul Newman prison movie is Cool Hand Luke. Hud is a different film (based on a Larry McMurtry novel, incidentally).
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Oh, thank you! I just now glanced through google images of Paul Newman's biggest movies. It would be fun to stream a little Paul Newman festival sometime. Not everything, of course, but the famous ones. I've seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid within the past 20 years, but that's about it -- I haven't seen the others in forever. In many cases, not since they came out. And some not at all, including Hud and Cool Hand Luke. Though in the latter case, I did read the Mad Magazine satire, if that counts. :laugh:
Front-Ranger:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on January 16, 2020, 10:40:56 pm ---It would be fun to stream a little Paul Newman festival sometime. Not everything, of course, but the famous ones.
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What did he do that wasn't famous, memorable, and good??
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