Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 07/07: Was Mr. Twist homophobic?
Scott6373:
Well I wans't involving myself in the previous conversations. I was responding to the thread name. ???
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Scott on September 13, 2007, 03:51:00 pm ---Well I wans't involving myself in the previous conversations. I was responding to the thread name. ???
--- End quote ---
Oh, OK. I guess when someone posts, I tend to assume they're responding to what's been said so far.
Anyway, I think the word "homophobic" in the title is not an attempt to be historically precise, but just shorthand for getting opinions on how Mr. Twist felt about homosexuality. The surprising thing about him, IMO, is how little he seems to object to it -- not how much.
I know what you're saying. Scott. When assessing the racial attitudes of the average 19th century person, for example, it seems a bit unfair to hold them to modern standards, because they haven't had the same opportunities for social enlightenment. Still, when someone's views stand out as particularly enlightened compared to the norms of the time -- as for example, Mark Twain's views about race did in the late 19th century -- it is worth noting.
injest:
When I talk about ANYTHING I bring all of my life experiences to bear on it. How can you not? you are shaped by your environment. I think comparing the characters in BBM and comparing them to your own life and expressing your thoughts and feelings is the very reason we are here.
I have never been good at analyzing what the authors meant...I go by Annie's quotee I suppose...that the story is partly written by its readers...
so MY response ALSO was based on my own feelings. Sorry.
Brown Eyes:
Well, I agree with Crayons in the general interpretation that Old Man Twist was an all-around unpleasant, rude and mean-spirited guy but not necessarily homophobic. If we extrapolate into the movie from the story we know he was abusive to Jack, but not necessarily based on Jack's sexuality especially since OMT's tendency towards abusiveness started when Jack was so young.
I think the fact that Jack told his parents about at least two men (Ennis and the "other fellow") in his life says a lot about how that aspect of his life was perceived and dealt with in his parents' house. And, I also think that OMT would have accepted Ennis on the ranch with Jack, as others have said, with the main objective from OMT's point of view being the care and maintenance of the ranch.
And, one point I think might be interesting to consider is that Ennis's encounter with OMT is part of his growing and learning experience following Jack's death. In meeting both of Jack's parents he learns that people could surprise him for the better in the nature of their reactions to their knowledge about his relationship with Jack. Ennis had gone through life expecting attacks and hatred at every turn when it came to people suspecting about his sexuality. But, upon meeting Jack's Mom (who clearly knows about his love for Jack) he encounters kindness and sympathy and someone who shares his grief. And, with OMT, it is a bit more complex because the conversation with him is so uncomfortable. OMT clearly is trying to needle Ennis about what he knows of Jack's statements about the other man, etc. But, still, OMT is not attacking Ennis or Jack with homophobic slurs or exhibiting the overt and classic signs of homophobia that Ennis might have expected.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: injest on September 13, 2007, 07:08:48 pm ---I think comparing the characters in BBM and comparing them to your own life and expressing your thoughts and feelings is the very reason we are here.
--- End quote ---
I agree.
--- Quote ---so MY response ALSO was based on my own feelings. Sorry.
--- End quote ---
Of course, IMO, you're going to analyze the story and movie in terms of your own life experiences. As you said, how could you do otherwise? To me, it makes sense to try to figure out how OMT is presented to us by the authors/filmmakers -- they are, after all, characters on their own, and not stereotypes of people we know in real life. But it also makes sense to discuss how we feel about OMT (and everything else).
--- Quote from: atz75 on September 13, 2007, 10:07:56 pm ---And, one point I think might be interesting to consider is that Ennis's encounter with OMT is part of his growing and learning experience following Jack's death. In meeting both of Jack's parents he learns that people could surprise him for the better in the nature of their reactions to their knowledge about his relationship with Jack.
--- End quote ---
I agree completely with this, too. I think the whole point of having OMT be surprisingly unhomophobic is to show Ennis that, contrary to his expectation that everybody is homophobic, it turns out it's not as simple as he assumed. And maybe, just to add to the tragedy of his fate, he overestimated the universality of anti-homosexual feelings.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version