Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 09/07: Did it seem like Jack was responsive to Randall's flirtatiousness?
Fran:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on September 26, 2007, 07:31:55 pm ---Hi Fran, I partly agree with what you just said. My comment before that was about the subtext, of course, not Jack's actual literal meaning. It didn't occur to me that Paul might be asking literally what Jack was talking about, perhaps not having heard the phrase as a once-common euphemism for going to the restroom. Yes, Jack was making small talk and using a common idiom of the day. And it's a way to carry the conversation along with small talk. To me, it works just fine on that level.
But most if not all of the lines in the film carry multiple meanings, and I think this one serves a second purpose. Subtextually, I see the entire dance scene as full of subtle remarks -- often digs -- about sexuality, including sexual orientation, sexual activity and masculinity. Men never dance with their wives. Jack and Randall don't have a smidgen of rhythm between them. Randall isn't mechanical. He wouldn't listen to LaShawn if he were going deaf tomorrow. LaShawn spent more on clothes than she made at N.M., which is more than Randall ever will make. Then there's the question of who Jack's actually asking to dance and the underlying meaning of Randall's invitation.
To me, the nose-powdering remark is another one of those. Subtly, unconsciously, Jack is saying there's nothing going on in bed that's worth getting gussied up for.
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Katherine, you're right. I was actually looking at the scene through more wishful eyes.
Admittedly, of all the scenes I've rewatched over and over, the Childress benefit dinner isn't one of them. For one thing, I find Cassie particularly annoying -- I think she has too many lines -- but I digress. Maybe this will explain it better: I don't want to see Randall putting the moves on Jack. I don't want to hear Jack imply he's not sleeping with Lureen because I already know who he'd rather be sleeping with and that he's just killing time with Lureen till Ennis can get his act together. Nor do I want to see Randall flirting with Jack because he's moving in on Ennis's territory, and that's not right. :)
Front-Ranger:
You're funny Fran. And I sympathize completely. 'Nother thing to keep in mind that powder is a powerful symbol. Men have their gunpowder--their guns. Women have THEIR weaponry--facepowder and such. Both types of powders are powerful reminders of potency. The flip side of this is the ashes--powder that represents the remainder of power, the residue, the emasculated form of powder. Both the ashes and the facepowder are present in this pivotal scene.
Later, there is a reminder of this as Lureen appears made up like a geisha or a Kabuki dancer when she confronts Ennis, altho thru telephone wires.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Fran on September 26, 2007, 08:00:15 pm ---Nor do I want to see Randall flirting with Jack because he's moving in on Ennis's territory, and that's not right. :)
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I know what you mean! :-\
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on September 26, 2007, 10:28:25 pm ---The flip side of this is the ashes--powder that represents the remainder of power, the residue, the emasculated form of powder. Both the ashes and the facepowder are present in this pivotal scene.
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Good point that powder could be seen as a form of power for women. Lureen is still desperately trying to use her pow(d)er, but Jack just doesn't get it.
--- Quote from: atz75 on September 26, 2007, 07:33:32 pm ---And... I just want to say wow to this observation!! :o
I think this is a truly interesting way to see this scene. So, is this an example of the "ink-blot" structure of the film? Or a microcosm of the film? Maybe microcosm is most accurate?
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It's like a little mini mirror, don't you think?
(I should say not all of this observation is entirely original to me; it's partly extrapolated from a discussion on imdb -- which took place last week!! Yet another amazing example of how you never stop discovering things about this film.)
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BBM-Cat:
--- Quote from: atz75 on September 26, 2007, 07:29:52 pm ---Hi Elle and BBM-Cat,
This is a really interesting interpretation of the scene and Jack's physical response. But, it's funny... I have tended to read the significance of the whole scene as being about Jack's strong "gaydar" and his ability to either read or draw-out other gay men. I think Ennis is meant to be the most astonishing achievement in this regard... the fact that Jack was able to get Ennis to come out of his shell on Brokeback, etc. is of course one of the appeals of the relationship (I think from Ennis's perspective at least). And, here again, Jack and Randall are able to figure each other out through subtle exchanges and glances at a dinner table with their wives present, etc. It leaves the Jimbo exchange open for interpretation. Jimbo appears to reject Jack completely, but I've heard discussions here and there where it's been suggested that Jack really did have an understanding that Jimbo might be interested in men but that Jimbo felt threatened by the public-ness of Jack's advance (in front of the bartender, etc.).
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I think you're very perceptive about this Amanda - and I agree with the impression of Jack's gaydar and the nonverbal communication occuring between he and Randall. Which, I think, because the nonverbal communication was actually verbalized aloud by Randall it was a bit of a 'shock' to Jack. Though they were picking up on each other's signals, maybe Jack didn't expect it to go further than that. I'm speculating also that Jack was taken aback at being pursued, given as you describe, his "ability to either read or draw-out other gay men". It's all very interesting.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: BBM-Cat on September 26, 2007, 11:23:47 pm ---I think you're very perceptive about this Amanda - and I agree with the impression of Jack's gaydar and the nonverbal communication occuring between he and Randall. Which, I think, because the nonverbal communication was actually verbalized aloud by Randall it was a bit of a 'shock' to Jack. Though they were picking up on each other's signals, maybe Jack didn't expect it to go further than that. I'm speculating also that Jack was taken aback at being pursued, given as you describe, his "ability to either read or draw-out other gay men". It's all very interesting.
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I completely agree that the whole situation shifts a bit out on the bench. You're right that once the guys are alone and Randall feels comfortable enough to actually verbalize his intent.. I think Jack feels a little overwhelmed. Maybe thinking that Randall is pretty "fast" here. And I think the fact that Randall happens to mention fishing (of all things) probably triggers all sorts of anxiety for Jack about Ennis and what this new scenario with Randall could mean to his relationship with Ennis.
But, yes, Jack's reactions seem much more guarded on the bench than at the dinner table. At least that's how I perceive it.
I do like the suggestion that he might be concerned about being so easily read as gay by another guy in a public place. It seems possible that this is one component of Jack's relative un-ease or stiffness at Randall's fishing trip suggestion.
This is also an interesting case where Jack isn't really the one making the first move. With Ennis and Jimbo, Jack takes the first initiative. So, maybe this throws him off a little too. In this way Randall is lined up more with Lureen as a first-move maker... and I guess both are second-choice options for Jack.
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