Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
Katie77:
Wow, what an intriguing question this is for me......ive done a lot of soul searching here....not only thinking, "did Alma Jnr know Ennis was gay"...but..."did I know MY dad was gay".....
To put you in the picture, I will briefly tell you my story....will try to keep it short so as not to bore you.....
My father separated from my mother when i was seven (in 1958) to live with his male partner....they lived together for the following 14years....i lived with my mother, but had continual and constant contact and visits with my dad and his partner....back in those days...late fifties, and thru the sixties, homosexuality was illegal here in Australia, so my dad and his partner just told everyone that they were brothers, and if I ever talked about Allen (dad's partner) i too, just referred to him as "dads brother".....(funnily enough, i never referred to him as "my uncle", he was "dads brother").....i loved him dearly as I was growing up, thought of him like a big brother, he was only ten years older than me, spoilt me and my sister, took us to the pictures, the beach, bought us records (musical ones), we had a great relationship.....they also came to my mums home for christmas, birthdays etc, so the family unit, although unusual, especially for those times, was still a happy and comfortable family unit.
I have been sitting here trying to think back, as to whether I KNEW my father was gay......(we used the term "homosexual" then)......
I guess I knew that Dad and Allen had a "partnership" of some sorts, knew that they were a "couple".....but as it is with most children, no matter what era they grow up in, no matter who their mother or father are living with....kids dont relate or even think too much about, the sexual side of their parents relationship......I was no different.....
I guess, because of the era, I was not subjected to too many questions or inuendos from my friends....when they asked who Allen was, I just said "Dad's brother", and that was accepted, no more questions asked....there was no embarrassment or any feeling of "hiding" anything.
Ironically, I was more embarrassed about the fact that my mum and dad were divorced, than anything else, because in those days, not many, if any, of my friends had parents who were divorced....(how times have changed)...
When I was 16, and had just met my future husband, my dad, actually sat me down and spoke the words, saying....."you probably all ready have guessed it, but I need to tell you, Allen and I are homosexual"....
You know how it is, when your parents sit you down to tell you about the "birds and the bees"?....you all ready know, and its a bit embarrassing actually hearing them say it....??.....well, thats what it was like.....he told me,I was a bit embarrassed.... then we just went on the way we had always gone on......easy as that...
In the following years, my Dad and Allen's life changed, as did my own....things happened that I did not understand, Allen left Dad....a few years later,Dad committed suicide...some very tragic times......and many years, of pushing a lot of things out of my mind....
Seeing the movie, finally made me see and realize the emotional side of my father's relationship.....finally made me understand the kind of love he had for Allen, and the pressures and social discrimination that they both endured to have that relationship.....knowing my Dad, when I look back now, he must have been so happy that me and my sister, just accepted them as who they were, we loved them both and knew they loved us.....what else mattered.....???
As I watched the movie, I probably saw for the first time, through Alma Jnr's eyes, what I myself had seen all those years ago.....my Dad, too, went off to live alone in a caravan (trailor), just like Ennis did....like her, I sat on the bed, and looked at my lonely Dad, and knew that he had lost the love of his life, knew that he loved me, but mourned the losss of the love that he could have no more......
I dont know if she thought her dad was "gay"....but she did know he had loved someone, and I assume she knew it was Jack who had been the one, he had loved and lost......
delalluvia:
IMO, no, she did not.
I could see it if Junior lived in a big city or if she was really sophisticated and in modern times, attached to the internet and exposed to TV shows that showcased or co-starred gay men.
She had no exposure to any of that.
She is kept very sheltered and she lives in a very small world in small town Wyoming. She most certainly is dragged to church by her mother. While Alma may at some point discuss sex with her daughters, she will most certainly not do it when her daughters are young. And when the time comes for the 'talk', due to her bitterness about Ennis affairs, she certainly won't bring up homosexuality. She thinks it's disgusting and nasty. Why would she discuss it with her daughter? Junior doesn't have a boyfriend at the time she asks to move in with Ennis, so I'm thinking she has no experience/knowledge about heterosexual sex much less the magnitude of variations thereof.
So, IMO, no, she does not.
Brokeback_Dev:
Thank You for sharing those thoughts and memories with us Sue.
Brown Eyes:
Hey Katie77, thanks so much for telling us your story here. :)
As to Alma Jr.... yes, I do think that by the end of the movie she knows or at least strongly suspects. The way Alma Jr. is portrayed in the film... she seems really, really introspective and probably very observant and intelligent (at least these are the vibes she gives off for me). And, of course, I think we're supposed to think that her quiet ways are very much like her Daddy's... and that they're probably very much tuned-in to one another (this wouldn't necessarily mean that she would be able to intuit her father's secret without the supporting evidence already cited in earlier posts).
I think the exchange with Cassie about "not the marrying kind" is our strongest clue that Alma Jr. may know.
Maybe how a viewer answers this question is also a test much like the "how did Jack die" test. If you completely or at least strongly believe that Alma Jr. knows... then the last conversation between Ennis and Alma Jr. in the trailer could take on very, very deep meaning. If Alma Jr. understands the subtext of the discussion of "love".... then this scene would be viewed very differently from a viewer who really doesn't believe that Alma Jr. knows.
louisev:
I say she knew. That I believe is what that whole Alma Jr and Cassie scene was about - to show that a) Junior knew and knew that her mother hated him for it and that b) it was okay with her but she didn't want him making the mistake of marrying Cassie as another coverup and so did what she could, subtly, to chase Cassie off.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version