Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
Artiste:
At least Alma Jr. was decent and cared for her father Ennis, even if I feel that she knew that her dad was a bi or gay man!!
That caring showed her that she was not anti-gay!
Hugs!!
moremojo:
Lots of interesting, insightful comments in this thread (I think we could give any book/collection of essays on this story/film a good run for its money).
My own feeling on Junior is that she probably suspected that her father was gay or bisexual, at least by the time of her scene with Cassie. The cryptic "Maybe he's not the marrying kind" remark and her added "You're good enough" response suggest that she feels that Cassie is probably barking up the wrong tree where her dad is concerned. What I get from that latter comment is the sense that Junior does see Cassie as good enough for any man to want--but she can't trust her dad to really do so, because of what she senses as his true nature. I don't necessarily think that Junior had these perceptions/feelings fully articulated in her mind, but I do suspect they were there, however nebulous their form might have been and may even have remained.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: moremojo on December 04, 2007, 04:52:44 pm ---(I think we could give any book/collection of essays on this story/film a good run for its money).
--- End quote ---
Did you have a particular one in mind, Scott? ;D
--- Quote ---My own feeling on Junior is that she probably suspected that her father was gay or bisexual, at least by the time of her scene with Cassie. The cryptic "Maybe he's not the marrying kind" remark and her added "You're good enough" response suggest that she feels that Cassie is probably barking up the wrong tree where her dad is concerned. What I get from that latter comment is the sense that Junior does see Cassie as good enough for any man to want--but she can't trust her dad to really do so, because of what she senses as his true nature. I don't necessarily think that Junior had these perceptions/feelings fully articulated in her mind, but I do suspect they were there, however nebulous their form might have been and may even have remained.
--- End quote ---
I dunno, Scott. Seems to me this doesn't give the comment enough credit for being a put-down, which is how I think Cassie sees it (and how I see it--that Cassie may be "good enough" but she's nothing special, or no better than she should be), but in her basic good-natured way Cassie doesn't allow the insult to upset her.
Katie77:
--- Quote from: southendmd on December 04, 2007, 02:18:10 pm ---I have to agree with you, Laura, about the "once burned": it comes off as a real insult, and her barely contained anger lets loose. I'd probably let him have it, too.
Here's the line from the story:
"Once burned," he said, leaning against the counter, feeling too big for the room.
Ennis could have said something a lot more civil.
--- End quote ---
I think Alma was genuine in her caring for Ennis, and her comment about "me and the girls worry about you", was a gesture of that.
Then he let go with the "once burned" comment, which was like putting condemnation and blame on her.....and that was, I think, the straw that broke the camels back with Alma, as far as taking any of the blame for the marriage not working.She probably thought....."ok, enoughs enough, Im gonna let him know who and what did cause our marriage to disintegrate"......
Up until the time she spat out the "Jack Nasty" words, Ennis did not have any idea that Alma had had any suspicions about Jack, he thought he had got away with all of it, without her knowing anything, and he knew that everything she was saying to him was true. She was not only letting him know that she was aware that his "fishing trips" were a lie, she was telling him that she knew that Jack was more than just a fishing buddy to him.
The fact that she had held all that in for so long, is testement to her good nature....and also, I think she would have been afraid to confront him with it, while they were still married, because of his temper....the time had come, he lit the fuse with the "once burned" comment, and she exploded with the "Jack Nasty" one.........
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on December 04, 2007, 05:06:07 pm ---I dunno, Scott. Seems to me this doesn't give the comment enough credit for being a put-down, which is how I think Cassie sees it (and how I see it--that Cassie may be "good enough" but she's nothing special, or no better than she should be), but in her basic good-natured way Cassie doesn't allow the insult to upset her.
--- End quote ---
I think I lean toward Scott's interpretation. I think Cassie takes it the way you do, Jeff -- that Alma Jr. is saying she's nothing special. But I think what Alma Jr. really means is that Cassie is plenty good enough to marry, and yet Ennis still doesn't do it, so therefore he must not be the marryin kind.
At that point, Alma Jr. may not know WHY he isn't the marryin kind, though. It seems to me that nowadays, when we look back on what in those days they'd call "confirmed bachelors" and the like, we now kind of assume that many of them were probably gay. But back while those days were still happening, the idea that they were gay probably didn't cross as many straight people's minds, and they just assumed they were men who preferred living alone. Does that make sense? And do those with a longer view of gay history agree?
However, in the final trailer scene, when Ennis asks "This Kurt fella, he loves you?" and then looks off to the side, emotions flashing over his face, I think Alma's curious and then sympathetic look suggests that she may understand that Ennis has gone through some kind of romantic heartbreak. And she probably knows it's not about Alma Sr. or Cassie. Yet she also knows her father isn't the marryin kind. So that, along with the many fishing trips and the big hug and so on, and the fact that by now it's the '80s, may have led her to put 2 and 2 and 2 and 2 together.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version