Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: moremojo on December 05, 2007, 07:17:44 pm ---If we return to the original story, it is interesting to speculate on how Ennis would have fared staying with his married daughter (not specifically named, but very likely Junior) and son-in-law after his eviction from the ranch. Specifically, I'm wondering how he would have handled the transfer of the shirts-and-postcard shrine to his temporary new domicile (though I seem to recall his trailer going with him, he would not necessarily be staying in it while relying on his child's hospitality). The shrine in the story hangs upon the trailer wall, and anyone who investigated it would probably have some curiosity about how it came to be there and what it meant. Any encounter with the shrine on Junior's part would have had to bolster any speculations she might have had concerning her father's private life.
--- End quote ---
Actually, it's a horse trailer mentioned in the story. The point is made that it might be bad out on the highway with the horse trailer because of the wind that is blowing sand against the trailer where Ennis is living when he awakes. The story also speaks of Ennis needing to be packed and away, so I assume he's leaving the residence trailer behind, but, of course, he's taking his horses with him.
As for the shrine, does this assume she knows why her father has two old shirts on a hanger on a nail, or that in fact they aren't both his shirts, just two old shirts? What if she doesn't know this? What if she just thinks that, inexplicably, her father left these two ratty old dirty shirts hanging on a hanger?
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on December 05, 2007, 11:55:15 pm ---
As for the shrine, does this assume she knows why her father has two old shirts on a hanger on a nail, or that in fact they aren't both his shirts, just two old shirts? What if she doesn't know this? What if she just thinks that, inexplicably, her father left these two ratty old dirty shirts hanging on a hanger?
--- End quote ---
I think it's reasonable to suspect that she would have noticed the "shrine" in such a small space with few objects to distract attention. It would really be very easy for her to stumble across the shirts and postcard (when you think about it). And, given that Junior at least seems to be observant (we're shown Alma *watching* a lot in the film... in various circumstances) it seems likely that she would find the "shrine" significant... perhaps odd... and perhaps meaningful. But, again, it's hard to imagine that she would be able to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together to understand the specific details of Ennis's situation. I would think, though, that the "shrine" would be one more element to add to the "hunch" that I think Junior has about her father.
Marge_Innavera:
--- Quote from: LauraGigs on December 04, 2007, 01:24:59 pm ---I have to disagree. Do you remember at the final lake scene when Jack asks, "All this time, you ain't found no one else to marry?" He's basically doing the same thing Alma is: checking out where Ennis' heart is at . . . how he's doing.
Around when my father died & we were all dealing with it, my brother-in-law would ask, "how's your head and your heart?" Basically the same question. Very direct, and also too touchy-feely for the period (and especially to someone like Ennis). Jack and Alma's question to Ennis is basically another way of asking that. (It's obviously not literal; they of all people would be the most shocked if Ennis were to remarry.)
--- End quote ---
Sorry, can't buy that. The closeup of her at the dinner table suggests that she resents the hell out of his being there to begin with, which is understandable. But IMO the question is much more likely a reference to a conversation with her daughters, and she knows damn well that a question about remarrying is going to throw him off-balance. I didn't read concern for head and heart into her actions, just manipulation and unresolved anger.
--- Quote ---It's when Ennis says "once burned". The flow of Alma's activities in the kitchen stops, her face freezes, and her demeanor changes. That was the final straw.
--- End quote ---
Yes, 'once burned' does make her angry. But on the other hand, she was married to this man for 12 years and presumably knew him for a year or two before that. And she doesn't know how inarticulate and clumsy with words he is? Hello?
She would still have a right to be angry about that remark but give me a break -- this is a classic fight between a divorced couple with unresolved issues, and neither of them give a damn, at least for the moment, about the people in the next room. There isn't any 'victim' in this scene.
But again, I don't necessarily like Alma any less for that scene. It keeps her character real.
Marge_Innavera:
--- Quote from: atz75 on December 06, 2007, 12:03:20 am ---
I think it's reasonable to suspect that she would have noticed the "shrine" in such a small space with few objects to distract attention. It would really be very easy for her to stumble across the shirts and postcard (when you think about it). And, given that Junior at least seems to be observant (we're shown Alma *watching* a lot in the film... in various circumstances) it seems likely that she would find the "shrine" significant... perhaps odd... and perhaps meaningful. But, again, it's hard to imagine that she would be able to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together to understand the specific details of Ennis's situation. I would think, though, that the "shrine" would be one more element to add to the "hunch" that I think Junior has about her father.
--- End quote ---
She does "watch" a lot -- many people who aren't very talkative notice early in life that so many people assume if you're not talking constantly you're also not watching or listening. I'd guess Alma Jr in later life becomes one of those people whose friends and family are regularly surprised by how much they've figured out.
IMO, Alma Jr is putting a lot of pieces together at this point and will eventually figure it out, but it will take some time.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on December 06, 2007, 10:45:09 am ---Sorry, can't buy that. The closeup of her at the dinner table suggests that she resents the hell out of his being there to begin with, which is understandable. But IMO it's much more likely that she's recalling a conversation with her daughters, and she knows damn well that a question about remarrying is going to throw him off-balance. I didn't read concern for head and heart into her actions, just manipulation and unresolved anger.
Yes, 'once burned' does make her angry. But on the other hand, she was married to this man for 12 years and presumably knew him for a year or two before that. And she doesn't know how inarticulate and clumsy with words he is? Hello?
She would still have a right to be angry about that remark but give me a break -- this is a classic fight between a divorced couple with unresolved issues, and neither of them give a damn, at least for the moment, about the people in the next room. There isn't any 'victim' in this scene.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you, Marge. :)
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