Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Artiste on December 10, 2007, 11:51:39 pm ---Ineedcrayons, you say this: Artiste, please keep in mind that roughly half of the members of BetterMost are straight. And most if not all consider themselves decent without that requiring further clarification. So please be tactful in these references.
Laura and Katie, I don't want to speak for Artiste, but perhaps he is referring to the fact that, in Ennis and Alma Jr.'s time and place, straight people who are understanding of and sympathetic to gays actually may BE in the minority.
...
May I reply that I never did qualify in numbers, or if one is straight or gay or otherwise who is decent!! Even if half or more, if not less, are straights on Bettermost, why limit freedon of speech??
--- End quote ---
Freedom of speech is almost never limited on BetterMost. My point was simply that if half of BetterMostians are straight, and you imply that decent straight people are unusual, many of the people you are writing to are likely to take offense. It's a matter of courtesy, not censorship. If that was not your meaning, then fine.
moremojo:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on December 11, 2007, 12:04:37 am ---Freedom of speech is almost never limited on BetterMost. My point was simply that if half of BetterMostians are straight, and you imply that decent straight people are unusual, many of the people you are writing to are likely to take offense. It's a matter of courtesy, not censorship. If that was not your meaning, then fine.
--- End quote ---
I take your point, Katherine, but I think we can assume that BetterMostians are hardly representative of the culture at large, and straight BetterMostians can hardly be taken as examples of the majority of straight people, whether in America or worldwide.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on December 10, 2007, 08:49:29 pm ---The ending is more about Ennis anyway than Junior, IMO. She doesn't have to have some sort of epiphany about her father to make the scene work. She can be just a simple girl happy that her daddy understands her love and is finally making time for her, no matter what.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you, Del, especially that last.
I'm afraid I tend to see the idea that Junior knew her father was gay, and even more was OK with it, as wishful thinking. But then I also come to this question from a life experience of having had a friend, now dead five years from metastatic lung cancer, who had a daughter who had a very difficult time accepting that her father was gay. And she didn't have to figure it out for herself, she was told (perhaps at an age too young to understand, but nevertheless she was told). And this wasn't small town Wyoming thirty years ago, this was the East Coast in the 1990s. They weren't reconciled until near the end of my friend's life. Thankfully, he and his daughter did have a good relationship for the last few years of his life.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: moremojo on December 11, 2007, 11:27:51 am ---I take your point, Katherine, but I think we can assume that BetterMostians are hardly representative of the culture at large, and straight BetterMostians can hardly be taken as examples of the majority of straight people, whether in America or worldwide.
--- End quote ---
Sadly, Scott, I agree. Originally, I was only trying to explain to Artiste why some straight people here would take offense at the implication that decent straights are an anomaly. Unfortunately, as we agreed earlier, when it comes to empathy toward gay people, they may be -- certainly in many cultures, if not all. Nevertheless, it's nice to be tactful when making negative generalizations about a group and directing one's comments to members of that group.
I would guess most people here understand those points and we can move on.
LauraGigs:
--- Quote ---But then I also come to this question from a life experience of having had a friend, now dead five years from metastatic lung cancer, who had a daughter who had a very difficult time accepting that her father was gay.
--- End quote ---
That's such a sad story, Jeff. And I can certainly see why it would leave a strong impression. :(
Alma Jr though? Although I have a hard time believing she knew her dad was gay until after the timeline of the film, I do think she would be okay with it.
I guess what leads me to believe this is the fact that she was still very loving toward him despite the fact that he hurt her mother. Between the swingset scene and Thanksgiving, Junior knows that Ennis could be pretty turdish toward Alma Senior, but doesn't let that sway her love for her dad. I don't think knowing he was gay would sway her love, either.
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