Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: Artiste on December 11, 2007, 07:46:27 pm ---Katie, you say: And if she knew or thought he was gay, she would have kept it a secret...she would have maybe even felt embarrassed about it....
if she knew that her father was bi or gay, would have kept it a secret, likely??
It is a question one can pose if she did mention it to anyone, maybe?
--- End quote ---
Why would she if she knew? That's not exactly news that would be welcome to be spread around in those parts. Obviously if she was told or by some miracle she figured it out herself, she would know/realize that her parents certainly had kept the secret so why would she spread the news around?
--- Quote ---But why she would have felt embarassed? Please explain!
--- End quote ---
Because the only gay men she would have known about - had she known what being gay actually was - were the stereotypes of mincing fancy boys on TV. She knows her father as the Marlboro Man, strong, silent, macho type. Her boyfriend/fiance is very likely a strong macho type, as well. Fancy boys are nothing to be proud of in societies where strong macho men are admired. She may love her father, but like most teens, anything that detracts from a parent being perfect is an embarrassment to them. She is still a kid after all.
--- Quote ---You really think that a kid of 19, does not soul search about their parents? Some do, I say! Especially, in the situation she is in, as her father was divorsed, may I say!
Awaiting your news and from others,
hugs!
--- End quote ---
Many don't. I don't put Junior up there with being very introspective. I know others don't feel this way, but I consider Junior to be just a simple, small town, not very deep, very average blue-collar girl.
Artiste:
Thanks delalluvia!
I just read your replies. Glad that you do. They sound good. I will reread.
For now, you say:I don't put Junior up there with being very introspective. I know others don't feel this way, but I consider Junior to be just a simple, small town, not very deep, very average blue-collar girl.
............
I prefer to think that Jr. is indeed introspective, to which degree I do not know, in the movie... as she seems to be so to me. Does she not seem to talk about her father trying to help or especially understand the girl that her dad danced with at the bar... that one that wanted to marry divorced Ennis?? !! I forgot her name of the one who insisted to dance with Ennis; one who worked as an bar waitress, was it?? That is only one example where she helps other persons!
Awaiting your news and help on this,
hugs!!
underdown:
Wow, this thread was supposed to be a 'Topic Of The Week', and it has been running at the box office for over 2 weeks, now.
True, it has digressed somewhat. It is obviously stirring a lot of deep emotions.
Isn't that what Bettermost is all about? Isn't the motto 'a catalyst for positive change'?
In my book, a catalyst is supposed to cause a reaction, and this topic cetainly has. If the discussion had been confined strictly to the subject, it would not achieve half as much. But there have been comments and questions moved, or deleted. (?)
Now, I am a straight male. One of the few on Bettermost. I do not discriminate against gay or bi people, nor against those for whom this topic raises deep emotions. Nor am I offended in any way. Emotions are healthy: including yours, mine, and those of anyone else who posts in response to these discussion threads.
To Artiste, this thread and the discussion of whether or not Alma Jnr was embarrassed by her Dad's homosexulality may raise the question 'why should anyone be embarrassed by someone because they are gay?' And that becomes emotional. So what? That is a valid question by a thinking person, and a natural result of the thread being a catalyst. As it should be, unless the Bettermost motto is meaningless. Why on earth that should be 'off topic' is beyond me. There were comments directed to an individual member that were deleted, but I am sure they were directed at an emotion being expressed, not to the character.
As has been suggested earlier, Alma Jnr was in a time and place where being open about her Dad's homosexulality, if she really understood it properly anyway, was dynamite. Why is it not ok to try to apply that catalyst of thought to Quebec, in the present, or anywhere else in the world, to pose a question ?
It is just as natural that others might react to questions like that, and the subject could raise their emotions, too. Well ... hell, that's good, isn't it?
I could take offence that people make assumptions simply because I am straight and therefore obviously 'just like all the rest of them', but don't, because I know it is usually the bigots and people who just want to be noticed who criticise the most, and the genuinely loving who are belted with tyre irons by those people who blindly follow the carping and criticising loudmouths.
I don't know any gay men with 19 year-old daughters. It must be difficult for them to know how they think towards their Dad, although sisters are something of an insight.
I have two daughters who were 19 not so long ago, (twins) one of whom accepts me totally as I am; a straight male who loves and likes and feels, sometimes loves the wrong people, and makes mistakes. The other is critical because I am single again, thinks I embarrass her, and therefore must prefer people outside of her family.
Do you think, Artiste, it could sometimes be just as hard being a straight male?
Artiste:
Thanks underdown!
Be assured that I am happy that you are a straight male and on here at Bettermost. I am also glad that there are some or many gay men, lesbians, bi, straight women, and others. It is indeed great to talk, each with his/her views and, details as examples when possible. I have learned much from others here, gays and straights and others!!! And seek to continue. And I am grateful to all!! Even for times that bewilded me from some!!
You are right that Bettermost must continue to give us freedom of expression... if I read you right. I feel that it does, most of the time and at other moments, I know that I am helped and that I helped too others. May that continue... always!!
We have found ways to help each other and others. And my wish is to discover other wondrous methoeds too!!
I am sure that Bettermost also saves lives! Plus it makes us all happier somehow!!
I do not understand some of your expression, so I will reread and will try, and pose you some question, if I may?
For now, you say this: Do you think, Artiste, it could sometimes be just as hard being a straight male?
..............
Underdown, do you think that your daughter (like Jr. here) would know that you would be gay if you were Ennis?
To answer you underdown, it is hard for straight males, yes; harder than gay males?
Straight do not have always the fear of getting killed because they are straights??
Will always be happy to get your news,
hugs!
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: Artiste on December 11, 2007, 10:55:10 pm ---Thanks delalluvia!
I just read your replies. Glad that you do. They sound good. I will reread.
For now, you say:I don't put Junior up there with being very introspective. I know others don't feel this way, but I consider Junior to be just a simple, small town, not very deep, very average blue-collar girl.
............
I prefer to think that Jr. is indeed introspective, to which degree I do not know, in the movie... as she seems to be so to me. Does she not seem to talk about her father trying to help or especially understand the girl that her dad danced with at the bar... that one that wanted to marry divorced Ennis?? !! I forgot her name of the one who insisted to dance with Ennis; one who worked as an bar waitress, was it?? That is only one example where she helps other persons!
Awaiting your news and help on this,
hugs!!
--- End quote ---
No, not really. Junior didn't say anything to Cassie. It was Cassie who initiated the conversation. Had it been up to Junior, she probably wouldn't have spoken to Cassie about her dad at all.
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