Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?

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Artiste:
I tried to answer at length a bit, but it disappeared all of a sudden. Will try tomorow, since I think a lot about if Jr. knew about her dad being gay!

Might be the cold.

Hugs! Keep warm under(underdown) and over (ineedcrayons)!! Ha! Ha!

Hugs! Hugs!

Aussie Chris:

--- Quote from: underdown on December 12, 2007, 11:03:49 pm ---In this country (Australia) the majority of crimes of physical attack against another person seem to be those committed by men against their wives or defacto partners (with alcohol as a major factor).
Most of this is not reported to police, but is well known by community services authorities, doctors, friends and (thus) media. There are also increasing numbers of cases reported of the abuse of children, quite often committed by a defacto male against his partner's child, but sometimes by both parents.
I think that community attitudes are changing with better communication, as people become less ignorant of gay matters, and more informed about male/female abuse. Ignorance of gay matters led to unfounded fear, or homophobia. Now there is a fear of straight men, generated by the reported actions of the abusive. I don't think any 19 year old would consider gay men at high risk here and now, compared to women in a bad marriage or defacto relationship. Years ago, they might have.

--- End quote ---

Um Rob, is this supposed to sound as condescending as it does?  You seem to be suggesting that the fear women and gays feel is somewhat unfounded because any reported violence has been beaten up or exaggerated?  Are you suggesting that it's not really as dangerous as we think?

moremojo:

--- Quote from: LauraGigs on December 12, 2007, 08:02:26 pm ---Through most of his life, his children were a financial burden; but in the end, they were his emotional salvation. Ennis would indeed be "nothin, nowhere" — rotting alone in his trailer — if it weren't for the new generation he created who loved him.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for this beautifully written explication, Laura.

underdown:
I did say 'Please excuse this being off topic' Chris, so a response would be better somewhere else.
But I don't know where, so if it is moved, that's fine ... I would totally agree.

No, that last post was not supposed to sound condescending, and I'm sorry if you took it that way.

'Not really as dangerous as we think' depends on how a person perceives danger.
I don't pretend to know how others think about it, and certainly don't suggest that there is no reason for anyone to fear, be they gay or straight, male or female. The point was that the attitude of a few who are self righteous towards gay people can promote fear in many other straight people who might otherwise respect the fact that we are all human beings. Such a general, ignorant (as in lack of understanding) attitude would then be 'somewhat unfounded'. That does not imply that I think that the fear gay people feel is, also, unfounded.

The threat women feel from straight men has a diffent cause, and I was not suggesting that it is unfounded because reported violence is beaten up or exagerated. There has been an increase in abuse of women and children by straight males, and I am old enough to have observed that, even if I don't know all the reasons. There have been reported some very serious abuses of women and children by straight males, and I have to assume that they are by straight males because they are mostly either sexual attacks or committed by males in a hetorosexual relationship. I know it is not a true analogy with homophobia, however, again, it is the minority that infects the majority, and hence the observation 'Now there is a fear of straight men, generated by the reported actions of the abusive'. Of course, straight males do not suffer the physical abuse generated against women and children, nor the physical and psychological abuse directed against gay people. But they do suffer greatly from generalisations about the motives and behaviour of straight males, and it is very demeaning to be assumed just as much, or nearly as much, a risk as those males who grab the headlines with their disgusting behaviour. It is even harder because they are expected to, and do, take it without complaint, and not defend themselves.

Just an aside. I have had many gay and bi friends over the years whom I love and respect. I have also had many straight female friends whom I love and respect. And it has nearly always been mutual.

I won't do the (hugs) thing....  I am straight, after all.
But I do care.

Rob.

moremojo:
I just had a thought that perhaps has been touched on elsewhere without my awareness. But I occurred to me that even Alma herself (the senior one) might not have "known" Ennis was gay. I'm thinking back to the Thanksgiving confrontation--the concern over Ennis being alone and the hope for him to remarry, along with the "Jack Nasty" rebuke. The concern over remarriage could suggest a perception on Alma's part that Ennis might be straight, were it not for the fishing trips with "Jack Nasty"--the implication here could be that Alma might see Jack as the one steering Ennis onto a "deviant" path, but that he himself is not intrinsically "deviant".

If this is the case, it could complicate our understanding of Alma Junior (or anyone else in Riverton) possibly realizing Ennis's gayness. Insofar as Junior is aware of Jack and his presence and impact on her father's life, she could see Jack and his relationship with Ennis as an aberration in Ennis's existence.

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