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The Morality Quiz
serious crayons:
I'm not sure what I would do. Once I accidentally ran over a turtle and, though I squished its shell, it wasn't dead. The humane thing to do would have been to run over it again. But I couldn't bring myself to do it. And that was just a turtle! And it was for its own good! My friend had to take the wheel.
So while I think there's a good argument to be made for smothering the baby -- there may be plenty of other children in the group, for instance -- I'm not sure I could do it myself. BTW, though, I don't agree that this is a purely selfish act. I know this because I would NOT smother the baby if were JUST ME and the baby, thereby saving only my own life (even if the baby were not mine).
I just read an essay about a wealthy entrepreneur who gave away almost all of his money -- almost $43 million -- to the poor, wound up living in a modest house, etc. He was asked if he'd kill his own child in order to save a group of children. He said sure, in fact, he'd even kill his own child in order to save two other children. That kind of mindset is very hard to fathom.
And finally, ever since I had babies and found how difficult it is to quiet them, I've often wondered how refugees trying to escape during war have handled this -- it has undoubtedly happened many, many times. I guess often, when possible, they've drugged the babies. That seems like the best solution. (To be honest, there were days when my kids were infants when I wished I had some of those drugs to use myself! ;D)
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on November 28, 2007, 07:13:31 pm ---So while I think there's a good argument to be made for smothering the baby -- there may be plenty of other children in the group, for instance -- I'm not sure I could do it myself. BTW, though, I don't agree that this is a purely selfish act. I know this because I would NOT smother the baby if were JUST ME and the baby, thereby saving only my own life (even if the baby were not mine).
--- End quote ---
So it doesn't matter that the baby is dead either way? Except if you don't smother it - you're dead too. What good came out of that situation? How is not smothering the baby any better?
David In Indy:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on November 28, 2007, 07:07:54 pm ---Eating dead people is a heckuva lot easier decision to make than smothering a live baby or giving up others to be killed in your stead.
--- End quote ---
Hi Delalluvia!!
I don't think people understand why I mentioned this. I wasn't trying to make comparisons. And I wasn't trying to suggest it was a more difficult situation than killing a baby. It is another one of those morality questions.
Here's another one: You all are familiar with the movie Beloved, aren't you? In case everyone didn't know it, there is also book too; not just the movie. Anyway, Sethe is a slave woman who escaped from her northern Kentucky tobacco and indigo plantation. It was just a a few short miles up to the Ohio river and then across to freedom in Cincinnati Ohio. She actually makes the trip back and forth across the river several times, bringing her small children (toddlers and infants) with her. After settling in Cincinnati, the posses and regulators find out where she is, and they are sent to fetch her. Sethe takes all four of her children into the shed out back and tries to kill them. She figures the children are better off dead, rather than go back into slavery in Kentucky with Schoolteacher, the overseer who is an extremely evil man. Beloved is a very bone chilling and blood curdling story.
Did she make the right decision? Life on the Sweet Home plantation was extremely hard and cruel for the slaves. They were frequently whipped, chained, families broke up and sold off to other plantations, children and young mothers raped and beaten, feet and hands cut off, etc...
See? And once again I'm not trying to compare anything. But this is another morality question. There are many of them. But the ones Kerry told us about are the most chilling, although the story of Sethe is probably a very close second. The only reason I say this is because it is Sethe killing the children. One of us isn't being asked to do it.
By the way, the story of Sethe is a true story. It really happened. Except Hollywood took the true story of Sethe, and turned it into a ghost story. In the movie, one of the children returns from the dead to haunt her.
dot-matrix:
--- Quote from: David on November 28, 2007, 01:41:09 pm ---For some reason this is making me think about the terrible plane wreck up in the Andes mountains back in the 1970's. I'm sure you all are familiar with this. The survivors of the wreck were forced to eat the dead. Remember that? This is another one of those "could I do it?" scenarios.
I don't think I could. But I suppose one never really knows for certain until they are faced with something like this. It's a chilling thought.
This very same thing happened to the Donner party in the 1800's. I think it happened in Colorado.
--- End quote ---
Donner Pass in California, east side of the Sierra Nevada mountains. They were actually only about 100 miles from their destination in Sacramento but the snows set in and they were trapped.
From Wikipedia
When they reached the Sierra Nevada at the end of October, a snowstorm blocked their way over what is now known as Donner Pass. Demoralized and low on supplies, about two thirds of the emigrants camped at a lake (now called Donner Lake), while the Donner families and a few others camped about six miles (ten kilometers) away, at Alder Creek.[2]
The emigrants slaughtered their oxen, but there was not enough meat to feed so many for long. In mid-December, fifteen of the trapped emigrants, later known as the Forlorn Hope, set out on crudely fashioned snowshoes for Sutter's Fort, about 100 miles (160 kilometers) away, to seek help. This group consisted of 10 men and five women. When one man gave out and had to be left behind, the others continued, but soon became lost and ran out of food. Caught without shelter in a raging blizzard, four of the party died. The survivors resorted to cannibalism, then continued on their journey; three more died and were also cannibalized. Close to death, the seven surviving snowshoers--two men and all five of the women--finally reached safety on the western side of the mountains on January 18, 1847.[2]
Donner Pass in the 1870s.Californians rallied to save the Donner Party and equipped a total of four rescue parties, or "reliefs." When the First Relief arrived, 14 emigrants had died at the camps and the rest were extremely weak. Most had been surviving on boiled ox hide, but there had been no cannibalism. The First Relief set out with 21 refugees on February 22.
When the Second Relief arrived a week later, they found that some of the 31 emigrants left behind at the camps had begun to eat the dead. The Second Relief took 17 emigrants with them, the Third Relief four. By the time the Fourth Relief had reached the camp, only one man was alive. The last member of the Donner Party arrived at Sutter's Fort on April 29.[2]
Of the original 87 pioneers, 39 died and 48 survived.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party
David In Indy:
--- Quote from: garycottle on November 28, 2007, 08:18:20 pm ---I'm familiar with the story of Beloved, and I personally think that Sethe made the right decision, for her, given the situation.
Gary
--- End quote ---
Beloved is an extremely scary and deeply disturbing movie. It is a very deep and intricate story and beautifully made. Oprah Winfrey and Danny Glover star in it. This is not a movie to watch if you are looking to get a quick scare though. Yes, it does have some frightening ghost scenes, but the movie challenges our sense of morality. I've watched Beloved several times, and each time I watch it, I'm never quite sure if I fault Sethe for attempting to kill her four children (and successfully killing one) or sympathizing with her. Suddenly the movie makes me uncomfortable with myself, and I think this is probably the scariest part. :-\
EDIT: Oops! I just re-read your post Gary and I noticed you said you ARE familiar with the story. I misread it the first time. Sorry about that.
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