Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?

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HerrKaiser:
Oh man, if we get on the subject again about the tragic oscar loss that Ledger should have won...I'll miss my flight in a few hours!!!  :)

but, regarding Aguirre, I think there is no way as suggested earlier that when he sent the men to the mountain..."why would he take umbrage when they ended up doing precisely that (having sex)?" This would suggest that the military, sports teams, etc etc would be an expected venue for male sexual activity. totally not the case.

And Aguirre really didn't take umbrage anyway. It was a noteable part of the film, for me, that Aguirre did not rage or take obvious offense at what he saw. It seems safe to say that in 1963 in that area of the world homosexuality was very much in the closet for reasons of what happened to the murdered man Ennis' father forced him to view. Yet, Aguirre basically had a 'holy shit' look on his face and essentially let it go. A year later he reasonably calmly told Jack to get lost, but his handling of the situation was far less mean and aggressive than one would have expected. In fact, his reaction and action was almost as if he was aware of such happening before and responded with a 'not this again' attitude.

And to me this was ironic because it was not the attitude that led to the man in the ditch or, later, Jack (either real or flashback).

brokeplex:
Good points. I have hoped that people would look at Aguirre as a hard pressed businessman, not just a homophobe. He was disappointed in Twists performance as a sheepherder, not in Twist's liaison with Delmar.

I love Jack, but he sure had a helluva lot of cheek trying to use Aguirre as a "dating service" - when he tried find out the location of Delmar from Joe.

moremojo:

--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on December 20, 2007, 11:09:45 am ---but, regarding Aguirre, I think there is no way as suggested earlier that when he sent the men to the mountain..."why would he take umbrage when they ended up doing precisely that (having sex)?" This would suggest that the military, sports teams, etc etc would be an expected venue for male sexual activity. totally not the case.
--- End quote ---
Annie Proulx herself reported that old ranch hands informed her that men would sometimes be assigned herding jobs with other men precisely so that they could keep each other company...implying that they sometimes used one another for sexual release. It has simply been pointed out in this thread (and not by me) that Aguirre possibly had the same motivation. I myself don't see this because of Aguirre's obvious displeasure at seeing Ennis and Jack together in a physical way.

Slightly off-topic, but I for one do expect there is a fair amount of man-on-man sex in the military, sports teams, etc,...we just don't usually hear about it.

serious crayons:

--- Quote from: moremojo on December 20, 2007, 12:55:11 pm --- I myself don't see this because of Aguirre's obvious displeasure at seeing Ennis and Jack together in a physical way.
--- End quote ---

Aguirre always looks so sour it's hard to tell when he's actually displeased. But his expression certainly doesn't seem to say, "Alright! Things are going just the way I'd hoped!"


--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on December 20, 2007, 11:09:45 am ---but, regarding Aguirre, I think there is no way as suggested earlier that when he sent the men to the mountain..."why would he take umbrage when they ended up doing precisely that (having sex)?" This would suggest that the military, sports teams, etc etc would be an expected venue for male sexual activity. totally not the case.
--- End quote ---

Whether or not that is the case, it's a different situation. Members of sports teams, and even the military, are not as isolated as sheepherders would be.

By the way, totally OT, but why do we call them "sheep herders" or "sheepherders" rather than "shepherds"?

Fran:
To his credit, Joe Aguirre did wait until Ennis had ridden back to the sheep before he rode up to tell Jack about Uncle Harold. It seems to me that Joe didn't want to surprise Jack and Ennis or, for that matter, confront them, which he easily could have done had he not waited. 

Joe's only thinking about his sheep.  When he refused to hire Jack for a third summer, it's because he and Ennis screwed up:  Joe ended up with some sheep that clearly weren't his, and the count wasn't what Joe expected it to be.  Joe had let Jack and Ennis know that he was dissatisfied with their job performance after the sheep were brought down from the mountain.  Joe was probably amazed that Jack could even imagine that he'd rehire him.  To me, Joe seems to be thinking, Jack, do you think I'd be so stupid as to hire you again?  Not on your life.  For Joe, Jack's question about Ennis was the last straw.  Only then did Joe bring up the "stemming the rose" part.

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