Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 18/07: Do you think classic cowboy icons like the "Marlboro Man" were proto
LauraGigs:
--- Quote ---If this particular type of image was in mind for Ennis, then I think BBM is making a comment on complex social realities lurking beneath the surface of images of glamorous cowboys.
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Damn. Your points (and Chrissi's) are fascinating and well-put.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: atz75 on December 14, 2007, 10:03:44 am ---Yes, I also agree that BBM is largely a love story. But, lots of westerns have a love story as, often a secondary, theme.
In investigating the romantic possibilities between the pair of main cowboys (instead of a protagonist cowboy and a female character... who is almost always featured as a secondary character) BBM is tweaking this longstanding aspect of westerns I think. Also, it's foregrounding a tension (attraction between the two main cowboys) that's usually just below the surface in traditional westerns. I recall from an award ceremony (the Oscars maybe?) in consideration of BBM, they played a montage of old westerns where there are obvious sexual or romantic innuendos going on between the featured cowboys. Does anyone else remember this montage?
And, in making this a modern western... and in heavily highlighting things like rural poverty and the non-glamorous aspects of small-town living... BBM is certainly concerned with a kind of modern realism.
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Yes, and I wish I had taped it. I thought it was hilarious. I wouldn't put too much stock in that montage without seeing the material it was taken from. Too much was probably taken out of context.
I guess this topic is a bit confusing to me. While Ang might have chosen cowboy icons to base BBM, he also depended a lot on realism. So to me, having grown up in Texas and been around cowboys my whole life, I don't see that Ang did a whole lot of artistic stretching to dress BBM. All he seems to have done - seeing that BBM is so amazingly realistic - is go to a western town and simply copy the people. As one costume designer one time said about BBM, 'the "clothing" hasn't changed." What cowboys were wearing in the '60s is what they're still wearing today.
injest:
right, the outfits were what people wear/wore. so I think Lee was just being his usual careful meticulous self for recreating the era. I am going back to the quote about if you believe that pot then you believe the story. I think he was being very careful to present what IS/WAS to NOT distract from the story....to give us clues and aids to believe and buy into the story completely.....
ifyoucantfixit:
I dont usually participate in these discussions, but I felt compelled to make my
ideas known. I think that the entire term cowboy is an iconic image.
It deals with a person or persons that do certain things. Mostly having to do with
riding a horse. Tending stock, and spending a great deal of the daily chore out of doors.
If we are discussing Brokeback Mountain as a genre. To me it fits completely on the side
of a western. The time is not as we typically think of as "western" in the past.
The elements are all there however. The hero, in this case there are two heros. The protagonist. In this case its not just one person. Then society in general, is the antagonist. Not just a single black hat baddie. The leader of
that pack, as per the ones in the older "westerns" started as Aguirre. He is also related
to the squeeler in the old westerns. The one that give the hero a difficult task to perform. Making the choices he has to employ in order to continue to live. Stopping a bad guy from hurting the innocent, or unprepared. and makes him feel
in danger. From whatever source his danger derives.
Just because it is written in the modern time, doesnt make it any less a "western."
The love story is an integral part of the movie, as in most "westerns it is." It just so
happens that it is between two men. Thus giving new impetus to the story. The hero, and his love, fighting the inevitable foes that they encounter . Wherether real or imagined, that is the foe, nonetheless.
As to the Marlboro Man or the James Dean characterization. Giant was not in the
least a "western" in my opinion. It was as Del mentioned more of an epic soap opera.
Dean's character drawing on the typical gear and outfit of the rancher and cowboy, as
norm in dress and demeaner of the men. Having little education, and little to call their own.
I believe the downfacing way has more to do with the kind of people that are and were
drawn to that life style. The shy introverted type. The James Dean character that is shown on the movie cover, is totally different from the one in the beginning of the movie. He was the very epitome of the Ennis we recognize. But following the money making time he became rich, his personal look more polished and having a great deal of confidence. He showed upward facing charisma. I think that the advertising world knows
and understands the mystique of the legend and charisma of the "cowboy." Every
little boy, and many little girls also want to be a cowboy. They want a pony for Christmas.
Its an easy way to sell a product. Starting im sure with the popularity of the so called
"cowboy movies." People wanted to be one. Wanted to feel that they are living a
romantic iconic life instead of being a clerk, or a bean counter. Therefor they could lose
themself if only for a time, inside the darkened room. Pretend and be a cowboy. I think its basically the chicken or the egg question. I personally think the man, the gear, and clothing came because of the convenience of it to the job they did. Plus the funds that they could use. Then the Marlboro Man or some other advertisement took advantage, and
romanticised that visual. Then used it to sell a product. We would have to then ask
Heath where or not he used those as his prototypes...I believe he did to a great extent.
I think Ang Lee also made that his choice in the Ennis confine as well.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: ifyoucantfixit on December 14, 2007, 08:57:52 pm ---We would have to then ask Heath where or not he used those as his prototypes...I believe he did to a great extent. I think Ang Lee also made that his choice in the Ennis confine as well.
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I believe Heath said he based his Ennis on the cowboys he had seen in Australia.
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