Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 18/07: Do you think classic cowboy icons like the "Marlboro Man" were proto
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on February 20, 2008, 05:37:21 pm --- :laugh: I dutifully copied that quote from imdb but just now read it closely enough to see that it's a Yogi Berra-ism. If John Wayne were alive, he wouldn't have a grave to roll over in.
--- End quote ---
Sure enough! :laugh: :laugh:
injest:
--- Quote from: atz75 on February 20, 2008, 04:17:05 pm ---I think that's really profound. The idea of Ennis (embodying visual aspects of an archetype and simultaneously subverting aspects of the archetype) makes the image of a cowboy in a cultural context seem to be a kind of a mask. Ennis could comfortably slip behind the mannerisms of a stoic individualist cowboy... and sort of hide in plain sight (while the behaviors of being alone and quiet are also aspects of being an outsider or in his case a closeted gay man). The inversion of the issue of freedom/independence vs. constraint/trying-to-fit-in-with-conventional-society in Ennis is pretty interesting.
I think the idea that the cowboy can mask lots of underlying realities is exactly what causes so much anxiety among folks who dislike BBM.
Crayons, at the moment this bit from one of your earlier posts really stands out as I'm thinking about this post...
--- End quote ---
see this is where I have to take exception. Ennis is not 'slipping' into anything....that is who HE IS....he is not acting...he IS who he is, quiet, withdrawn, individualistic in HIS way...
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: injest on February 20, 2008, 07:58:16 pm ---see this is where I have to take exception. Ennis is not 'slipping' into anything....that is who HE IS....he is not acting...he IS who he is, quiet, withdrawn, individualistic in HIS way...
--- End quote ---
Because people associate being withdrawn and stoic and lonerish as classic cowboy traits, they don't question why he has them -- on the contrary, in that context they seem respectable and even cool. But in his case, being a rugged cowboy type isn't the whole explanation for his behavior. The traits serve as a convenient and acceptable mask for Ennis ' real reason for hiding. So, although he's not slipping into anything at 19 and beyond, and those traits are partly just inherent in his personality, I also believe that he developed them as a way of hiding aspects of himself in a culture where he knew very well those aspects weren't considered acceptable.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: moremojo on February 20, 2008, 01:18:05 pm ---It might be worth bearing in mind that Proulx has insisted over and over again in interviews and articles that Ennis and Jack were not cowboys...they wanted to be cowboys, but they came together as sheepherders on the mountain (the low end of the totem pole in the ranching culture in which they lived). Jack didn't even remain on the land but became a small-town gentleman-salesman of not insubstantial wealth (or at least with links to that wealth).
--- End quote ---
I don't get this. Well, perhaps that's what Proulx intended but that's not what the movie ended up being.
Granted they did meet while they were sheepherders, instead of real cowboys...
But to say Jack had aspirations of being a rodeo cowboy?
Um, he was a rodeo cowboy.
Not a very successful one, it was all penny-ante small town stuff, but he still rode the circuit. I think he achieved being a rodeo cowboy, even if he wasn't successful and eventually retired due to injury.
By the end, he's a man of some means, but he isn't dressing like the Marlboro Man, he's dressing like rich cattlemen do - leather western blazers, nice boots, silver jewelry and expensive felt hat
As for Ennis, he was a sheepherder for one season. Then he was a ranch hand, shucking feed to cattle, helping with the calving, then by the end of the movie he's got a job on the cattle drive. If that isn't a cowboy, I'm not sure what Proulx considers a cowboy.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: injest on February 20, 2008, 07:58:16 pm ---see this is where I have to take exception. Ennis is not 'slipping' into anything....that is who HE IS....he is not acting...he IS who he is, quiet, withdrawn, individualistic in HIS way...
--- End quote ---
You could also look at it another way... Ennis is given these characteristics by the writers, costume designers and actor who all worked together to create the fictional character that we know as Ennis.
Yes, Ennis is who he is within the narrative of BBM. And, within the narrative of the story he was probably not deliberately assuming certain personality/character traits. Although, some of his personality traits are somewhat within his control. I do think he probably used his tough-guy stoic public image to his advantage when he wanted to. And, in certain cases I think an argument could be made that he's being deliberate.
But, all of the things having to do with Ennis were entirely within the control of the artists who created him. And, thinking about those choices... which characteristics the writers/director/actors decided to give Ennis vs. say, Jack or other male characters like L.D. or Monroe... are interesting. To me this is a question about the meaning behind artistic decision making. I mean, as on example, I recall an interview with Heath where he talked about how he thought about Ennis's posture... how the way Ennis holds himself when he walks reflects all the bottled up tension that he carries around. And, to me, Ennis's posture can probably be read a couple different ways. It can be read as tense, reserved/shy and defensive (someone who is scared) or it could be read as tough, rigid and rugged (someone you wouldn't want to mess with). Little things like that are carefully crafted and thought through.
The fact that Ennis as a figure within the narrative of BBM absorbs both the qualities of what we've been calling an "iconic" cowboy and those of a closeted gay man so easily and seemingly naturally on his part (with probably little conscious effort) may go towards demonstrating the way, for Ennis those things could, in certain cases, be two sides of the same coin. Which, again, seems to be a good reason why both of the main characters in BBM are threatening to certain resistant audiences... because they challenge some long-held myths about certain American/masculine icons.
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on February 19, 2008, 12:27:15 pm ---
It's impossible for me to believe that Annie would have spent all that time and energy working all those Biblical allusions and classical myths and all the other subtle imagery into her story ... but not have meant anything particular when she chose cowboys as her characters. It's also impossible for me to believe Ang Lee went to all the trouble to set up an image of Ennis posed against a backdrop of exploding 4th of July fireworks without having it cross his mind that his movie is playing around with American myth. Or that either Ang or Annie -- who were so careful about establishing elaborate metaphors involving buckets and snow and bears and water and laundry and so on -- would not have given any thought to American feelings about cowboys and what they represent.
--- End quote ---
I think this point is really central to all of this. The image of Ennis in front of the fireworks... lashing out in frustration is such a great example. Here we have one of the symbols of the American west for many generations (the cowboy) at an entirely American/patriotic celebration demonstrating a great deal of masculine prowess in his ability to lay both of the annoying bikers out flat. So on the one hand... that's the ideal. But, just below this is the fact that we know (as Brokies) that Ennis is a super-painfully shy and, at this point, extremely frustrated gay man. The fuel behind his lashing out here is multi-layered.
With the explosions going off behind him it's almost a visualization of the "explosion" (so to speak) of certain myths or icons.
And, back to Jack... and his identity. By the time of the reunion Jack is no longer a working cowboy in any sense (he's retired from the rodeo and the cow and calf operation is a pie-in-the-sky fantasy). So yes, he continues to wear gear associated with cowboys throughout the rest of the film. And, these are fashion/ image choices on his part. Yes, he wears expensive hats, nice watches, etc. by the end.
When LaShawn says "we came out here thinking ranching was still big hats and Marlboros, boy, were we behind the times..."
She's right. She's talking about how images and realities in the west and in Texas have evolved... and again I think BBM is a pretty nuanced study in the way the west has changed in terms of cowboy culture, etc. in the late 20th century.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version