Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 01/08: Do you think Jack was murdered or was it an accident?
belbbmfan:
--- Quote from: RouxB on January 08, 2008, 04:16:06 am ---
The fact that she did indeed call it an accident, well... In my mind that just adds to the tragedy that is Ennis. All this time his fear of the "tire irons" holding him back when, in the end, it was the tire. I think if Jack had indeed been murdered, all Ennis' fears would have been validated and the message, for me, would have been quite different-not less-just different.
O0
--- End quote ---
Absolutely Rouxb. The fact that is was an accident makes this story even more tragic (if that's at all possible). To me, if Annie Proulx had called it 'murder', Ennis would have been 'right' in not choosing that sweet life. :(
He wasn't, and that is truly heartbreaking to read.
I agree that the movie is more ambivalent. I wonder if that was deliberate? It must be. The images of 'Jack's murder' are very powerful and devastating. But the way that scene was added, it was clear that that was what Ennis was thinking, not Ang Lee showing us what really happend.
nova20194:
Funny.....isn't it? Brokies don't never seem to want to stop discussing this subject. And rightfully so, I suppose. It's truly one of the great mysteries of our time.
I've always felt that Jack was murdered, that I'll never know for sure, and that I was never supposed to know for sure. I think a good poll question would be "Do you think that Annie Proulx knows for sure if it was murder or an accident?" I don't think even she does. I'm sure she's been asked the murder/accident question quite a few times. I wonder how she manages to avoid answering it?
Does anyone remember seeing Heath, Jake, Michelle, and Anne on Oprah almost two years ago, sometime before the Oscars? Oprah asked Anne how Jack died, and her response was something like "Isn't it obvious?" Because I've always felt it was murder, I thought it was "obvious" from Anne's performance that Lureen was lying to Ennis about the accident. I can also see, though, how one might believe that she was telling the truth, if you believed in the accident explanation. I wonder if Anne knows the real answer, or if she merely has a strong opinion like many of us???
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: nova20194 on January 08, 2008, 07:55:43 am --- "Do you think that Annie Proulx knows for sure if it was murder or an accident?" I don't think even she does. I'm sure she's been asked the murder/accident question quite a few times. I wonder how she manages to avoid answering it?
--- End quote ---
I've asked myself this question sometimes.Thinking of what she wrote in "Getting movied", about the characters getting so damned real to her, you might easily be right.
--- Quote ---I wonder if Anne knows the real answer, or if she merely has a strong opinion like many of us???
--- End quote ---
I think Anne Hathaway can't know the real answer, in the sense of objective truth, because there is no such thing. She might have a very strong opinion, like many of us, like you said.
And I think she was heavily influenced by Ang Lee. I think Ang Lee personally is sure it was murder. I think he managed to (almost) not favor the murder version in his movie, as the movie is ambigious. But from what he said in interviews I think he himself believes in the murder scenario.
Kerry:
Deep within my heart of hearts, I have no doubt, and firmly believe most sincerely, that Jack was brutally murdered in a vile and callous, frenzied attack. He was brutalised by a pack of homophobic thugs and left to drown in his own blood, all alone with no-one to comfort him, on the side of some godforsaken, miserable, dusty country road. This is my belief. My reality. I feel it in my gut. I know it in my heart. I saw it happen with my own eyes, through the sweet, pure, nightmare vision of blessed Ennis' worst fears. I wish to God it wasn't true. But it is true and it is impossible for me to progress beyond that fact. It's what Ennis believed and that's good enough for me.
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: garycottle on January 08, 2008, 08:16:23 am --- No matter how Jack died, Ennis may have been able to do something if he had been there. That's the tragedy.
--- End quote ---
Agreed.
"He didn't know which way it was, the tire iron or a real accident, blood choking down Jack's throat and nobody to turn him over."
I think this is a great part of Ennis's tragedy summarized in one sentence. He has to live with uncertainty and guilt. I think the second part of the sentence is sometimes a overlooked tragedy in itself. Nobody was there. Jack drowned in his own blood because nobody was there to help him.
If Ennis had been there, he might have been able to save Jack.
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