Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 01/08: Do you think Jack was murdered or was it an accident?
nova20194:
--- Quote from: Toast on January 08, 2008, 01:36:15 pm ---
The scene seems to have been shot since a killer mechanic (and his 'buddies') is listed in the credits.
Gary Lauder .... Killer Mechanic
Christian Fraser .... Grease Monkey
Cam Sutherland .... Assailant
[scene from Brokeback Mountain trailer]
--- End quote ---
This scene was indeed shot. Here's an excerpt regarding this scene from the FindingBrokeback.com website:
“It was removed to add ambiguity; Lee believes that the harder the audience must work, the better the result,” says a reliable source. There are at least three other excellent arguments for deletion of the Sneering Mechanics scene.
1. It elevates “I wish I knew how to quit you,” and the Dozy Embrace, to their rightful place as Jack’s valediction. Absent the Sneering Mechanics scene, we remember Jack as a man deeply in love, who spent his unhappy life struggling to overcome the consequences of hatred and fear. Could there be a higher honor?
2. It has given rise to literally thousands of hours of vigorous discussion and debate about Jack’s fidelity, and the issue of monogamy in general. Fan websites are awash in lengthy arguments over Jack and his “ranch neighbor friend.” Ennis never knew the truth with certainty, and neither will we.
3. Jack’s fate becomes the film’s much-celebrated mystery. Is Lureen telling the truth? When we witness the murder are we seeing what actually happened or is it Ennis’ imagination at work? Perhaps most intriguing of all, why does it matter to us so?
If you'd like more information about this scene (or 9 other deleted scenes), check out the "Deleted Scenes" section at FindingBrokeback.com.
louisev:
I think that if that scene were included in the release film, it would be an easier question to answer, but I think that removing that scene brought it back more to the realm of the book.
serious crayons:
And I also think it's possible that the screenwriters and Ang Lee are "wrong" -- that is, have a different idea about it than Annie Proulx did. I use that word ironically, because of course they have every right to interpret the story and make the film however they'd like. But I do think that, for me, the story more clearly points toward accident, while the film leaves it more ambiguous, with the deleted mechanics scene suggesting murder and the final product leaving the question open (obviously) to debate.
Diana Ossana, in an interview, once said that if you ask Annie Proulx how Jack died, she'll tell you that she doesn't know. I assume this is true, because I would think it would have come up in their conversations about the story. So probably Annie didn't come right out and tell her, one way or another.
But I think that could be disingenuous on Annie's part. Literary authors are often skittish about explaining too much about their stories, especially about things that they kept subtle deliberately. And there's no doubt that, whatever Annie had in mind, she kept it deliberately subtle. If she'd wanted to make it more obvious, she could have.
But subtlety, in literary fiction, is not the same thing as providing no answer at all.
--- Quote from: Toast on January 08, 2008, 01:36:15 pm --- It was easier to face that Jack had been murdered than to face that he, Ennis, had killed their sweet life together.
--- End quote ---
Good point, Toast. And it suggests one possible interpretation of "There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it."
That is: He knew that Jack had died accidentally, and that Ennis had killed their sweet life. But he tried to believe that Jack had been murdered, because it was easier to face.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: nova20194 on January 08, 2008, 02:06:51 pm ---3. Jack’s fate becomes the film’s much-celebrated mystery. Is Lureen telling the truth? When we witness the murder are we seeing what actually happened or is it Ennis’ imagination at work? Perhaps most intriguing of all, why does it matter to us so?
--- End quote ---
Isn't that the truth?
--- Quote from: louise van hine on January 08, 2008, 02:24:12 pm ---I think that if that scene were included in the release film, it would be an easier question to answer, but I think that removing that scene brought it back more to the realm of the book.
--- End quote ---
I agree, Louise.
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on January 08, 2008, 02:43:19 pm ---Diana Ossana, in an interview, once said that if you ask Annie Proulx how Jack died, she'll tell you that she doesn't know. I assume this is true, because I would think it would have come up in their conversations about the story. So probably Annie didn't come right out and tell her, one way or another.
But I think that could be disingenuous on Annie's part. Literary authors are often skittish about explaining too much about their stories, especially about things that they kept subtle deliberately. And there's no doubt that, whatever Annie had in mind, she kept it deliberately subtle. If she'd wanted to make it more obvious, she could have.
--- End quote ---
It would have been self-defeating of her purpose for Annie to come out and say, one way or the other. Ennis is left with his conviction of what happened, and so are we, each left with our own conviction.
Penthesilea:
Back to story only for a moment. Something mentioned here by Paul triggered me to look up every single mention of the tire iron. I then posted the following on the mettle-of-man-thread, but repost here on request, since it also belongs to this topic:
Do you know how often the tire iron is mentioned in the story? No less than six times. :o Six, that's a whole lot for such a short story.
* They'd took a tire iron to him [Earl], spurred him up, drug him around by his dick until it pulled off...
* If he [Ennis's father] was alive and was to put his head in that door now you bet he'd go get his tire iron
* No, he thought, they got him with the tire iron.
* He didn't know which way it was, the tire iron or a real accident...
* So he knew it had been the tire iron.
* The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron.
,
The first two are from the motel scene. The next two are from the phone call with Lureen, # 5 is from the Lightning Flat scene and the last one is from Ennis's dream after Jack's death.
The first two are spoken by Ennis. The next three are thoughts of Ennis and the last one is from Ennis's dreams.
All six mentions of the tire iron come from Ennis. No other reference to tire irons than from him.
Katherine's comment on this:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on January 08, 2008, 02:57:32 pm ---I think you should post it there, too, Chrissi. Because as you've listed them here, you can see Ennis' thoughts developing and firming up. Which to me suggests they were in his mind in the first place.
And the last image, of the spoon and the tire iron, "in a cartoon shape and lurid colors that gave the dreams a flavor of comic obscenity" seems -- in my mind -- to really underscore the idea that the idea of Jack's murder is a product of Ennis' paranoia.
--- End quote ---
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