The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
Sarah Waters: Books & Movies Discussion
Lumière:
While there is a little lull in our Affinity discussions....How about some....
.... because Nan is always lingering somewhere in a corner of my mind!
Lumière:
Amanda - where are ya, Bud? ;)
Lee - You almost done with Tipping yet? :)
Yet another side note on the book I am reading now ...
To Believe in Women: What Lesbians Have Done For America - A History(1999) by Lillian Faderman.
From Amazon.com
Taking up where her 1981 classic, Surpassing the Love of Men, left off, Lillian Faderman reveals that many of the early leaders who fought for women's suffrage, higher education for women, and women's entrance into "male" professions would in today's parlance be called lesbians: "women who lived in committed relationships with other women." Unencumbered by the duties of marriage and motherhood, they were more likely to have the time, energy, and freedom to work for women's rights. In fact, they were more or less obliged to try to better women's lives, Faderman argues, for there was no man to represent them at the polls or support them financially. (Although Elizabeth Cady Stanton's husband and seven children failed to distract her from the cause, her friend Susan B. Anthony used to help her with the children and housework before they settled down for political strategy meetings.) During the Depression, when women's social and economic gains began to dwindle, it was these "single" women who kept professions open while married women were being fired in favor of men. Faderman gracefully surveys a century of advancement and retreat, shedding light on America's debt to women-loving women. --Regina Marler --
What an amazing writer/historian... It is a fascinating read.
I am just starting the third chapter but so far, so very good. :)
Brown Eyes:
Heya Milli! I'm right here Bud... ain't goin' nowhere. ;) I've been glued to the TV more than usual lately with all the crazy news going on, so I've been on BetterMost a little less the last few days (plus things have been pretty busy at work too, so I don't think I've been posting quite as much as usual this week so far).
Anyway, thanks for the great pictures in your earlier post. I love that pic of Zena kissing Nan's ear. It's so hard to think about Zena taking off in the middle of the night with the little bit of money they had. Nan was still so hopeful as she fell asleep (even in that awful shelter she was so optimistic), only to wake up to be so disappointed. I was actually genuinely surprised that Zena would betray Nan like that, she really hadn't seemed the type earlier. It's also sort of interesting to realize that the actress would go on to play a real, hardened thief in Fingersmith.
I wanted to let you know that I received my copy of Beyond the Pale in the mail tonight! Yeehaw. 8) I'm really looking forward to reading it. And, will of course keep you posted.
To Believe in Women really is a fascinating book. I already have that book! :D Gay and lesbian history truly is riveting to read about.
So, now I have a recommendation... I don't remember if I've mentioned this book before or not. It's called Strangers: Homosexual Love in the Nineteenth Century by Graham Robb. It deals with subjects pertaining to both gay women and gay men. It's a page-turner it's so interesting. My best gay male friend recommended it to me. Actually, I started reading it once at his apartment and ended up borrowing it to finish it... and then I bought my own copy.
And back to a few Affinity points...
I think your suggestion about Vigers reading Margaret's diary and conveying the information about the Helen-relationship to Selina is very good. I bet that's the answer to the question about how Selina could have figured out so quickly that Margaret was a lesbian (particularly given Margaret's prim and proper appearance, etc.).
So, I have a general question to keep the Affinity discussion flowing. How do you feel about Selina? I mean, by the end after we know everything... do you have sympathy for her on any level and how drastically does your opinion of her change? Prior to the big revelation about what Selina was really up to... how do you feel about Selina (in terms of liking her/ not liking her... being intrigued/ being suspicious or skeptical, etc.)?
I also have a big overarching question about these 3 Waters' stories that have been turned into film versions... What common denominators do you see in Waters' themes/issues/plot devices and storytelling strategies do you see. To me one of the most obvious storytelling device that Waters uses in all three... and to varying degrees of subtlty... is the surprise plot twist that changes the reader/viewer's understanding of the entire situation. But, it seems like there are actually a lot of themes, etc. that run through all 3 of these stories.
Somehow I tend to think of these 3 as a kind of informal trilogy for some reason, with Nightwatch being a slightly separate thing.
Lumière:
Hey Amanda! 8)
Great discussion topics you have brought up!
I shall return later today with my response to your questions. :)
First,
You got Beyond The Pale!! Fabulous. ;) Definitely keep me posted on that score.
Also, I just ordered the book you recommended (Strangers: Homosexual Love in the Nineteenth Century ) from Amazon!
I am thoroughly enjoying To Believe in Women. It get goosebumps as I read the enormous challenges these women went through to bring us to the point where we are today. It is also fascinating to get a glimpse into their loves and relationships with other women, especially around the turn of the century when the innocence of "romantic friendships" was starting to fade away.
Here are a few items on my reading list in the very near future..
Odd Girls And Twilight Lovers by Lillian Faderman
Life Mask & Slammerkin by Emma Donoghue (Thanks for the recommendation!)
The Collected Stories of Elizabeth Bowen by Elizabeth Bowen
Well Of Loneliness by RadClyffe Hall (been meaning to read this book forever...)
and a few more...(including "Strangers" which you just recommended! ) :)
I shall be back to resume our SW discussion!
~M
Front-Ranger:
Speaking of surprise plot twists, I just encountered one in Tipping the Velvet. It's a good thing there was a bit of a spoiler about it here, because if I'd read it cold, it might have caused me to choke on my chardonnay!!
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