Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
Penthesilea:
A little later than usual today, but here it is ... :)
This week's topic was suggested by Katherine (Ineedcrayons), but also came up in a conversation between Souxi and JeffWrangler not too long ago. So thanks to all three of you! :-*
Let's talk about the „Maybe Texas“ scene. First Ennis asks if everything between Jack and Lureen is normal, then says the following:
Ennis: You ever get the feeling', I don't know, when you're in town, and someone looks at you, suspicious ... like he knows. And then you get out on the pavement, and everyone, lookin' at you, and maybe they all know too?
I think this is a quite complicated and important little scene. Ennis shows himself open and aware, Jack makes his third (and last) proposal to Ennis, which leads me directly to some questions about this scene:
- Should Jack have responded differently when Ennis asked him whether he worried about people on the pavement knowing?
- What was Ennis's intention in this dialog?
- How aware was he at this point of the movie of the nature of his and Jack's relationship?
- Why did Jack make a proposal just at this moment? Had he been long waiting for an occasion? Or did it just slip out?
- What about the symbolism in this scene? What do you make of the coffeepot/pan/water/etc?
I'm sure there are more aspects to it, so share your take on this scene.
Brown Eyes:
This is such a great question... and a scene that certainly deserves more in-depth attention.
I'll come back to this thread as I ponder this some more.
But, I'll just start by saying that I think the observation about this conversation revealing that Ennis has some level of self-awareness at this point is pretty interesting. It seems to suggest that he's taken at least several steps away from his earlier "I'm not queer" stance.
I really don't know what he's hoping to hear from Jack. It seems that this is a pretty big worry, weighing on Ennis's mind, and clearly Jack is the only person with whom he can discuss this. It's actually nice to see Ennis opening up to Jack and discussing this candidly with him.
As far as Jack goes... it's interesting how quickly he seizes on the opportunity to suggest a compromise (at least) in the issue of living together. You can tell Jack has been thinking about different strategies for brooching the subject with Ennis and this idea of moving *closer* if not together seems to be a new recognition on his part that the living-together-dream might be more possible in baby-steps. Unfortunately, in this scene it may come across that Jack's playing off of Ennis's fears and maybe even encouraging his worried-state by suggesting that "maybe you should get out of there." On the surface, I could see an argument being made that it's sort of manipulative. But, I don't think that's Jack's motive/intention at all. I do sort of think Jack is a little worried about Ennis... the look on his face and the tone of his voice when he suggests that Ennis "should get out of there" makes it seem like he really is concerned.
This scene just seems so painful for both of them. It again highlights the recurring main issues for both characters. Ennis's fears and Jack's desparation at being separated from Ennis.
moremojo:
One immediate comment I'd like to make about this exchange is to note Jack's seeming naivete when making his proposal to Ennis, specifically, inviting him to relocate to Texas. I have little doubt that Childress circa 1978 (sorry, I don't have the published screenplay before me to more specifically date this scene) would have been any better or safer than Riverton at that same time in terms of a gay, bi, or man-loving man living his life in comfort and security as a welcome member of the community. Ennis senses Jack's naivete and rebukes him for it, and doesn't appreciate at the time what a beautiful gift Jack's dreams really represent.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: moremojo on February 18, 2008, 02:52:01 pm ---One immediate comment I'd like to make about this exchange is to note Jack's seeming naivete when making his proposal to Ennis, specifically, inviting him to relocate to Texas. I have little doubt that Childress circa 1978 (sorry, I don't have the published screenplay before me to more specifically date this scene) would have been any better or safer than Riverton at that same time in terms of a gay, bi, or man-loving man living his life in comfort and security as a welcome member of the community. Ennis senses Jack's naivete and rebukes him for it, and doesn't appreciate at the time what a beautiful gift Jack's dreams really represent.
--- End quote ---
I don't think Jack believes Texas would be safer... I think he just means that maybe Ennis should move someplace new where people don't know him as well as they may in Riverton and where there would be little chance for rumors, etc. to follow Ennis.
And, I don't think the safety issue is the main reason why Jack is suggesting the move to begin with... it seems like a pretext to me. I think Ennis gets this right away... which is why he gets angry.
forsythia12:
omg thank you for this thread. i love this idea. i love examining scenes and discussiing them.
the scene in which you ask about is one of my favorites.
first of all, this scene at the river was after alma confronted ennis about jack. we all know his response, and like true to ennis's character, you cannot make a fool of ennis. he always hated being made a fool of, and i think this weighed heavily on his mind during this camping trip. i think he was shocked and scared and pissed that alma had discovered his secret.
i think he wanted to know if jack had experienced the same thing. "if my wife found out, did yours too?"
ennis, in his own fears, was paranoid his whole life of this, and thought maybe jack would feel the same way...but jack didn't have the fears that ennis had. i think jack was oblivious to the idea or consequences of being discovered, which i'll point out later.
as far as the dishes floating down the water, well, i think that's part of ennis's clumsiness. ennis had many many clumsy moments. remember, how many times he tripped over stuff? how 'bout the first tent night when he grabbed his blanket and headed into the tent...he tripped, knocked over stuff. when he got spooked by the bear, and chased the mule, he tripped over the packs and food. when he made it back to the camp after the bear incident, and he was cut and all mad, he tripped, and kicked something before he sat on the log. when he yelled at alma for taking an extra shift at the store, he tripped and kicked over a bucket while chasing after her. ....so, when the dishes went floating away, and he said "yeah you're a real thinker...jack fuckin' twist' i think it was adding a little comedy to the fight. not funny comedy, but a little lightheartedness to a serious issue. i think it was just showing their differences in how they deal with being gay, and their differences in character. i think that was the main point of this conversation. i think the writers didn't want us to forget how scared ennis was of being detected.
also, soon after this fight, i thought the scene with leshawn's (i think i spelled that wrong) husband was very profound. he asked jack about the cabin, and going up there just the two of them....and after the invitation, jack sat there solemn and silent. i think jack may have been thinking about the conversation with ennis, and wondering how leshawn's husband knew he was gay. i think at this point, jack saw what ennis meant....like "when people look at you and they know"
also, aguirre found out about jack and ennis, and jack never told ennis that because he knew he'd be upset. i think jack didn't see the seriousness of being discovered.
ang lee said about jack , "he's the hopeless romantic", and i think true to jack's character, he runs with how he feels, and doesn' worry as much about being found out as ennis does.
as far as the texas comment. personally, i think jack just meant that he doesn't have the same diffuculties that ennis was facing. i think he thought ennis was paranoid, but i also think he thought maybe ennis wouldn't feel that way in texas, or maybe it was the people in wyomming that made ennis feel that way. i don't know what else to read into it. maybe jack just wanted ennis closer to him, and maybe it was one last offer, but i'm not sure. i'd love to hear other ideas.
thanks again for this thread.
forsythia (leigh-ann)
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