The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
Shelter: The "gay surfer movie" (it's so much more!). See it now and discuss it!
Shakesthecoffecan:
--- Quote from: rdg64 on May 16, 2008, 04:43:50 pm ---
I wonder about Zach's decision to apply/go to art school being almost indistinguishable from his decision to be with Shaun. What if he had not gotten in, could there still be a healthy coming out and possibility of making a relationship with Shaun?
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I tend to think he felt like he had a good shot of getting because he had been accepted before, knew his worth. Very good question, did Zach need to have validation of being accepted to CalArts to feel worthy? Perhaps he was taking Shaun's advice and taking what he wanted and came back to him saying: you were right, about a lot of things.
I see the previews on their website and the quality is so much better than on the links I have been watching I am stoked to get the DVD.
David In Indy:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on May 16, 2008, 07:40:50 am ---LOL
My thoughts: keep the men (they have more fun with each other than they'd ever have with me anyway ;D) - but I WANT THAT HOUSE!
Can you imagine to have THAT view from your bedroom? I'd turn the bed around - you bet.
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I just keep imagining myself jumping in there between the two of them. David Nasty. It's a nice thought. lol
--- Quote from: rdg64 on May 16, 2008, 04:43:50 pm ---Howdy all. A little internet bird told me this forum discusses this movie. Thanks to rightwhere_u_r's link, who I think is Snork here, I watched the movie a million times on the internet, and in processing and re-processing it, I am glad to have a place to post some thoughts. Also, I have found a lot of the reviews out there to be incredibly superficial, so that's another reason it's good to have a place like this! I skimmed the 26 pages of posts here, but please forgive me if I am redundant. These are the main themes of my thoughts:
The tragedy of Jeanne's life definitely clouds the happy ending of the film and makes me wonder why it is still considered a "feel good" movie. (I like the inclusion of her character, and am just saying how it effects my emotional reaction to the film.) She is going off with a man who is at least on some level abusive. She is leaving the only anchors she has, for something with hardly a remote chance of helping her life. She has lived in direct contrast to Zach's beauty, generosity, artistic gifts, ability to escape to the ocean, and now, a life with a respectful, giving partner. Looking to the future, her own options seem to be some kind of life with someone with no obviously redeeming qualities except the willingness to have her (but not the one she gave birth to) around. If she comes back from Oregon, where can she fit in to the family that is taking shape? Her character is done really well, I think, and adds a really interesting dimension to the film.
I wonder about Zach's decision to apply/go to art school being almost indistinguishable from his decision to be with Shaun. What if he had not gotten in, could there still be a healthy coming out and possibility of making a relationship with Shaun? In the otherwise wonderful final walkie-talkie scene, I feel like the move to be together was completely couched in terms of school. I did love in this scene that Zach said, "can you help me?" -- thereby making his move to "take what he wants" in this world, and accept help in doing so. And while I know there does not have to be blatant language about resuming/confirming their relationship, I wish he had said something that told Shaun he was accepting his sexuality and their relationship. Anyway, I loved the scene.
I like Shaun's character and wonder if he was kept purposefully a bit vague (what's the story of his breakup, how does he feel about falling in love with someone younger, etc.?) I love his equilibrium somehow, even though some critics have said he is too even-keeled! I love that he left a breakup and is coming back with two of his own new guys! Aesthetically, I loved Zach's street and bedroom art, and the "ghetto" of San Pedro backdrop, and loved them in the ocean. Okay, I haven't said much in the end, and now I am posting and running, but thanks for the Shelter topic here. I hope to be back!
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Welcome to Bettermost RD!!! :D
mariez:
--- Quote from: rdg64 on May 16, 2008, 04:43:50 pm ---The tragedy of Jeanne's life definitely clouds the happy ending of the film and makes me wonder why it is still considered a "feel good" movie. (I like the inclusion of her character, and am just saying how it effects my emotional reaction to the film.) She is going off with a man who is at least on some level abusive. She is leaving the only anchors she has, for something with hardly a remote chance of helping her life. She has lived in direct contrast to Zach's beauty, generosity, artistic gifts, ability to escape to the ocean, and now, a life with a respectful, giving partner. Looking to the future, her own options seem to be some kind of life with someone with no obviously redeeming qualities except the willingness to have her (but not the one she gave birth to) around. If she comes back from Oregon, where can she fit in to the family that is taking shape? Her character is done really well, I think, and adds a really interesting dimension to the film.
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Let me add my welcome, rdg! And my appreciation for your insightful thoughts.
Yes, Jeanne is a sad figure, but perhaps seeing her younger brother finally making such positive changes in his own life, and having the courage to do so,will give her some food for thought about the decisions she has made, and continues to make in her own life. I hope so. Because, ultimately, Jeanne is the only one who can change Jeanne's life. Her options may be somewhat limited by circumstance, but not completely. She may not have been given Zach's artistic gifts, but I think she had the ability to do some different things and make some different choices. (For instance, I can't see where anything stopped her from escaping to the ocean if she had chosen to). And when I say that some people aren't meant to be parents, I'm not saying it as a criticism, but rather as a simple fact of life. Some people aren't. And I don't think her life necessarily has to be a tragedy - there's always hope.
But your thoughtful comments about Jeanne, Zach's future, and Shaun's past makes me want a sequel! Wouldn't it be great to meet up with all of them again a year from now?
Marie
rdg64:
--- Quote from: belbbmfan on May 16, 2008, 05:23:47 pm ---pull up a log and stick a boot in the fire!
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How many times have I contemplated that boot in the fire? How exactly did Jack get away with putting his put in the fire? Did the boys have fireproof boots?
Thanks so much for the lovely welcomes.
mariez, you are absolutely right about Jeanne needing to change Jeanne's life. I am always subject to seeing characters bogged down by circumstance. I have always leaned away from seeing Ennis as as flawed an individual as some do, thinking more about his place and time and circumstance. But free will has got to figure in there, I know.
And yeah, a sequel -- I wish! I am always astounded at how authors/screenwriters find peace with telling their story, wherever they end it, leaving the rest of us (or me, at least) saying, "what about this??" and "what about that??" (But I will never forget Annie Proulx admitting in an interview that J & E stayed with her, against her will.)
What do you guys think of the characterization over most of the film of Zach and Shaun's relationship in terms that show more affection/comradery than a lot of sexual charge? I think that aside from Zach coming to understand his sexuality, he badly needed the friendship and company and warmth that Shaun offered. Did it sometimes seem impossibly calm and sweet? I guess the main thing we know about that aspect of their relationship (aside from everyone's favorite staircase, etc. part!!) is the couple of heavily-cuddly montages in the middle. I like those, but I want to know what they are saying!
In some of the reviews, they talk about Shaun (presumably because of his age, his experience) being in the mentor role, but actually one of the things I thought was interesting was how equal they seemed in their interactions (Zach was never portrayed like a naive kid; so much of his character being about having too much responsibility too soon, I guess, but Zach and Shaun also sounded equal in wit and intelligence and having found their identities as artists). Shaun definitely had expectations -- perhaps too high, at the beginning -- of Zach having the ability to figure out and come to terms with his own identity, on his own -- no heavy-handed coaching. I think that's what made the Japanese mentor joke at the beginning (before their first surfing date) and at the end (with the walkie talkies -- "did not see truth," etc.) kind of funny, because "student" was actually making his own way.
By the way, I think Netflix says DVD would be available there on May 27!
Bye again, thanks again for the opportunity & sweet welcome.
j.U.d.E.:
--- Quote from: belbbmfan on May 16, 2008, 04:13:26 pm --- And you have great taste in men! LOL Yeah, Stan is very talented. A good singer and a good actor. And not bad on the eyes either!
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*BIGGRIN* Oh yes!
[my computer problems persist, otherwise I would have replied earlier and more.. have to go now.]
Welcome to this board and thread RD!
j. U. d. E.
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