Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 09/08: Were Ennis and Jack particularly bad fathers?
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on March 22, 2008, 03:52:14 pm ---In that case, we're going to just have to disagree about what "abuse" is. IMO, Ennis in particular has done a far better job as a father than his own father did; and there's just so much you can expect of people when they go into family life with their own baggage.
--- End quote ---
Heya,
I agree with this. And, it has to be recognized that no one's perfect (ever) when it comes to parenting. And, the circumstances for Ennis and Jack were particularly challenging. In that light I think the each did very well. Neither one was perfect. But, I think each did well enough to be considered good fathers or at least caring/loving fathers. So, in basic response to the question of this TOTW, I don't think either Jack or Ennis could be called "bad fathers" (especially when the extremes of "bad fathers" are considered... neither one is abusive, a deadbeat, etc.). As I've stated previously, I also think each did much better than their own fathers... which really is quite a feat.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on March 22, 2008, 03:52:14 pm ---In that case, we're going to just have to disagree about what "abuse" is. IMO, Ennis in particular has done a far better job as a father than his own father did; and there's just so much you can expect of people when they go into family life with their own baggage.
--- End quote ---
OK. I understand what you're saying but IMO just because someone was not as abusive as their parents doesn't by default make them a better parent. They are still bad, just not as bad. Even considering the times Ennis was living. He was a crappy husband to Alma and an absentee father to his children. In any time, to abandon one's children because of one's own needs has never been a sign of a good father.
winterhug:
Getting back to the topic... No, they were not particularly bad fathers. They did the best they could and that's all any of us can say.
BlissC:
--- Quote from: winterhug on March 22, 2008, 11:20:27 pm ---They did the best they could and that's all any of us can say.
--- End quote ---
I agree. Given the complex situation, I think they did the best they could. Neither intentionally set out to harm their kids, and I think Ennis more so than Jack was acutely aware of his responsibilities, though undoubtedly he didn't always get it right, and didn't always do the right thing.
At the end of the film when Alma Jnr visits Ennis to tell him about her engagement she's obviously still close to her father (the fact he doesn't know her fiance's name is I think more of a "father" thing than any sign of distance between her and Ennis IMHO from the easy way she laughs with him about it though) and in the SS's prologue Ennis says that he "might have to stay with his married daughter" (presumably Alma Jnr), which suggests they still have a good relationship.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: BlissC on March 23, 2008, 11:21:41 am ---I agree. Given the complex situation, I think they did the best they could.
--- End quote ---
I completely disagree. Quitting jobs when your children need to eat so you can meet with your lover isn't 'good' or 'the best anyone could do' by any stretch of the imagination. That's just selfish and irresponsible, plain and simple.
--- Quote ---Neither intentionally set out to harm their kids, and I think Ennis more so than Jack was acutely aware of his responsibilities, though undoubtedly he didn't always get it right, and didn't always do the right thing.
At the end of the film when Alma Jnr visits Ennis to tell him about her engagement she's obviously still close to her father (the fact he doesn't know her fiance's name is I think more of a "father" thing than any sign of distance between her and Ennis IMHO from the easy way she laughs with him about it though) and in the SS's prologue Ennis says that he "might have to stay with his married daughter" (presumably Alma Jnr), which suggests they still have a good relationship.
--- End quote ---
It may not necessarily be good. Ennis' daughter in the story may just be dutiful. A friend of mine would never turn her mother away if she was unemployed and needing a place to stay. I've seen her do it. And she despises her mother, was emotionally abused by her and still is. But to her, the woman is still her mother, so she won't turn her away. Another friend of mine is having Easter dinner with her father tonight. She's been having long talks with him recently, ever since she learned he has come out of remission and is probably terminal with lymphoma. And he physically, emotionally and verbally abused her her entire childhood. She also despises him, and time has not changed him. He isn't sorry for what he did to her, completely unapologetic. But, she figures, the man is dying, what's she going to do? Turn away his gestures?
Parents and their children can be held together by all sorts of things, it isn't necessarily indicative of a 'good' relationship between them.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version