Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

TOTW 10/08: Jack's hang-ups - or lack thereof

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BlissC:

--- Quote from: Katie77 on March 26, 2008, 07:32:32 pm ---I have always wondered about what kind of conclusion Jack and Ennis came to after the last lake scene, and if it was the end of Jack's dreams.

--- End quote ---

I think going back to the original story, Annie sums it up perfectly, "Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved".


--- Quote ---The emotional outburst from Ennis, was the first time he had ever let his true feelings and insecurities out, he was telling Jack, in a round about way, that "its because of you, Jack, I'm this way"......he was finally telling him that he loved him (in a round about way), telling him that its because of what there is between the two of them, that has controlled his whole life.

I have always thought, that instead of being the end of Jack's dreams, it would have been some reassurance that Ennis felt exactly the same way about him as he did....

We don't know what happened between the two of them, after the grasping clutch on the ground, or what was said in reply to what Ennis said, but the one consolation we do have, is that Jack did not die wondering.......he did know how Ennis felt.

--- End quote ---

I've never looked at it that way, but I can see that now in a way, though I'm still not sure that Jack did know, not entirely. As far as we know, that was the first time Ennis broke down in Jack's presence, and I guess the closest he was ever going to come to telling him that he loved him, but Jack craves affection, craves reassurance, and he's not getting that from Ennis - "Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved". There's something heart wrenching about that final time Ennis drives away and Jack's left standing there, the look on his face. Then it fades to 1963 and the dozy embrace and then Ennis riding away back to the sheep, and the way that Jack's standing there watching him go. It cuts back to the present, and Jack's left there looking so lonely and desolate and small. It's as though he's finally realised, like the tagline says "there are places we can't return to", and it's as though, as Optom said earlier, "the last remnants of his dream,get blown away on the wind."

optom3:

--- Quote from: Katie77 on March 26, 2008, 07:32:32 pm ---The posts here are really great and really sum Jack up perfectly.

I have always wondered about what kind of conclusion Jack and Ennis came to after the last lake scene, and if it was the end of Jack's dreams.

The emotional outburst from Ennis, was the first time he had ever let his true feelings and insecurities out, he was telling Jack, in a round about way, that "its because of you, Jack, I'm this way"......he was finally telling him that he loved him (in a round about way), telling him that its because of what there is between the two of them, that has controlled his whole life.

I have always thought, that instead of being the end of Jack's dreams, it would have been some reassurance that Ennis felt exactly the same way about him as he did....

We don't know what happened between the two of them, after the grasping clutch on the ground, or what was said in reply to what Ennis said, but the one consolation we do have, is that Jack did not die wondering.......he did know how Ennis felt.



--- End quote ---

I always thought they must have made up.,at least superficially.Ennis has  sent a card confirming the next meet.That terrible deceased card.If they had not reconciled,he surely would not be seeking confirmation of the next meet.It is also interesting that it is the Ennis sending the card,
Like you I  feel that by then Jack has realised that Ennis loves him.The only problem I have is why then is he talking to OMT about another chap.Has that really happened or is OMT jut being cruel.I think the problem is Jack may know Ennis loves him.The downside is he also knows it will never be in the way he wants.Certainly not the sweet life he dreams of.He wants Ennis fulltime.
Or can it be completely turned on its head.Has Ennis sent a card confirming the Nov. meet,because for the first time Jack has not contacted him.If that is the case,and I hate to think of it.Then could be Jack has given up,OMT was speaking the truth and maybe Jack never knew he was loved.Is that why Ennis says,Jack I swear,you might not have known it,but I did love you.
I hate that scenario so I push it to the back of my mind.I go with they have made up at the last meet,Ennis sends the card, more as sorry can't get away sooner than Nov.
I am so undecided on this one.The only thing I am sure of is that Jack gives up on the "sweet life" at the last meeting.Whether he would have lived with someone else and continued to slip away to meet Ennis,or continued just a it had been for 20 years I do not know.He does say he can't get by on a couple of high altitude fucks a year.
He needs a permanant relationhip.I just can't imagine him giving up seeing Ennis completely.What a conundrum.I hope he knew he was loved,even if he had given up on his dreams.

BlissC:

--- Quote from: optom3 on March 26, 2008, 08:25:25 pm ---I hope he knew he was loved,even if he had given up on his dreams.

--- End quote ---

I think we all share that sentiment.

malina:
What a profound question - as are range of responses. For me, switching the focus from 'what makes Ennis tick' to why Jack is the way he is is part of the evolution of insights about BBM. We aren't given as much information about Jack, it seems at first, although maybe, in fact, we are given plenty..

I'm just remembering that when I first watched BBM with a friend of mine, she was very adamant that she didn't want to "be a Jack". She was involved with someone she saw as an 'Ennis', and what the film crystalized for her was that she did not want to play the Jack role. She didn't want to be the long suffering, patient one, putting up with constant avoidance and disappointment, never pushing too hard.

I understood what she meant, but I didn't like hearing her say it, because I think I preferred to idealize Jack. I think the way that Jack just kept loving Ennis, and trying to give him what he needed, even when it hurt him... when it kept hurting him, constantly.. is both beautiful and necessary to Ennis's development. Jack was Ennis's 'ministering angel'. His love had a sacrificial quality to it. And BBM is essentially Ennis's story, and for that story to unfold as it does it is necessary for there to be a Jack, and for Jack to act as he did.

But how do we reconcile that with a human Jack who.. well, maybe, held on too long, and neglected himself and his own needs? I think Jack is guilty of that... he cut himself off from part of what he needed, and maybe even denied the need itself, in order to be with Ennis. He forced himself to be satisfied with whatever little bits of life Ennis could share with him. And when dissatisfaction drove him to find consolation in other things and people, I think he ... well, I think he did it quickly and with his eyes closed, without acknowledging to himself what his life with Ennis was costing him, until that last camping trip when the shock of Ennis's cancellation of August forced the admission out of him in the form of anger.

Who acts like that? Maybe someone who doesn't have the self-esteem or the faith to try and find in this world what he really needs, or who, as someone has already said, has a problem with reality?

I don't know... but a long time ago, on IMDB, I posted something about Brokeback Mountain being a 'domaine' for Ennis – a 'domaine' in the Arthurian legend sense, a place removed from everyday reality, somewhere idealized, and somewhere that, having been there once, you keep trying to get back to. And someone posted in response to that idea – "Ennis' domaine was Brokeback.. Jack's domaine was Ennis". And, of course, wanting to idealize Jack, I didn't much like that idea either. It made Jack sound too screwed up, and I wanted him to be rational and right.

Could it be that love always has a f-ed up element to it? About 5 years ago on Valentine's Day I wanted to figure out the answer to that for once and for all, and I engaged the help of another friend of mine who is a therapist, and we had coffee and cake and discussed the issue. Why is it that love... the great loves we admire in literature, for example... always seems to lead people to act in ways that are not.. well, not really rational, or healthy-seeming? I don't think we ever resolved the question.

I read a poem, somewhere online, last year, and now I can't find it, but it said something to the effect of: "Do not give your heart to anyone who does not have the courage to cut pieces of their own soul to make a cloak to shelter you". That's pure Jack, to me. And yet.. well, the cutting pieces of your own soul does not really sound very healthy, does it?

Oh, I don't know. I guess what I really think is that Jack, having found companionship and love with Ennis, having found and recognized a person with whom he 'clicked' and matched, was afraid of never having that feeling again, if he let go of Ennis. I think he was afraid of his life feeling unreal and unconnected, to such a degree that he kind of manifested that very thing... a life that could never really come together for him, a life in which there was no true stable center, where even in death he couldn't be in one place.

But I think to act in any other way would have cost him the experience of loving so deeply and for so long. In the end I still think Jack WAS right..

ramble ramble and a bit OT... sorry!

BlissC:

--- Quote from: malina on March 28, 2008, 03:03:53 am ---I think I preferred to idealize Jack. I think the way that Jack just kept loving Ennis, and trying to give him what he needed, even when it hurt him... when it kept hurting him, constantly.. is both beautiful and necessary to Ennis's development. Jack was Ennis's 'ministering angel'. His love had a sacrificial quality to it. And BBM is essentially Ennis's story, and for that story to unfold as it does it is necessary for there to be a Jack, and for Jack to act as he did.

--- End quote ---

That's a very valid point, and I agree, BBM is Ennis's story, right from the start of the SS and the "panel of the dream" image. I agree too about idealizing Jack. We've all said that part of the lure of BBM and part of it's appeal is that the characters are real, complete with human flaws and weaknesses, not stereotypical love-story heroes. It is very easy though to idealize Jack and to only see his devotion to Ennis and "forget" in a way the reality of what his life must have been like forever waiting for Ennis and dreaming of the "sweet life".


--- Quote ---But how do we reconcile that with a human Jack who.. well, maybe, held on too long, and neglected himself and his own needs? I think Jack is guilty of that... he cut himself off from part of what he needed, and maybe even denied the need itself, in order to be with Ennis. He forced himself to be satisfied with whatever little bits of life Ennis could share with him. And when dissatisfaction drove him to find consolation in other things and people, I think he ... well, I think he did it quickly and with his eyes closed, without acknowledging to himself what his life with Ennis was costing him, until that last camping trip when the shock of Ennis's cancellation of August forced the admission out of him in the form of anger.

Who acts like that? Maybe someone who doesn't have the self-esteem or the faith to try and find in this world what he really needs, or who, as someone has already said, has a problem with reality?
--- End quote ---

Again, an interesting point. I guess he was so "blinkered" in his devotion to Ennis that he never even saw, or admitted to himself, that there might be  other ways or other people he could find happiness with. For all his clowning around in the early days and his talking and laughing, and outwardly optimistic outlook, throughout the story he's really a tragic figure, from the start when he's "crazy to be anywhere but Lightning Flat" glancing at Ennis outside Aguirre's office as he shaves, to the end of the film where after their final meeting he's standing forlorn watching Ennis drive away. 


--- Quote ---Oh, I don't know. I guess what I really think is that Jack, having found companionship and love with Ennis, having found and recognized a person with whom he 'clicked' and matched, was afraid of never having that feeling again, if he let go of Ennis. I think he was afraid of his life feeling unreal and unconnected, to such a degree that he kind of manifested that very thing... a life that could never really come together for him, a life in which there was no true stable center, where even in death he couldn't be in one place.
--- End quote ---

I think his only true stable centre was Ennis, but even that centre wasn't really stable because Ennis never could, or would commit. At their last meeting where Jack says "so what we got now is Brokeback Mountain. Everything built on that", the same is true of Ennis. Jack's whole life is built on Ennis, and just like they can never go back to their idyllic life on the mountain, Jack can never get back the carefree Ennis he had on the mountain. As you say, it's interesting to note that even in death he couldn't be in one place, and he couldn't be the place he really wanted to be.

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