Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Ennis and Old Man Twist
Brown Eyes:
LOL! I don't know... you're certainly welcome to copy that other (very excellent) post if you'd like. The thread you're talking about is the reason I bumped this one.
;)
Rayn:
--- Quote from: atz75 on May 22, 2006, 07:34:33 pm ---So, we've discussed both here and on the old board many amazing aspects of the interaction between Jack's Mom and Ennis. I'd like to see more discussion about the interaction with the father. This topic came up in another conversation and I thought it was worth a thread...
If Jack's dream had come true of Ennis coming up to Lightning Flat to live and help run the ranch... Can anybody imagine how Ennis and John Twist could have co-existed on the same ranch? The idea just makes me smile. I think things would have been great with Mrs. Twist (a new mother-figure for Ennis the orphan). But, the idea of Ennis and Mr. Twist clashing on a daily basis is just amazing.
On a more serious note, in the book it's made pretty clear (and it's hinted in the film) that John Twist was pretty abusive to Jack. How would Ennis have reacted to seeing Jack berated by his father?
--- End quote ---
I can't imagine Ennis and Jack on the Twist ranch. There was too much anger in Ennis and Old Man Twist for them to work the same ranch. And even if Ennis started a confrontation when cause his anger got the better of him at times, he didn't like confrontation. And you can bet there'd have been confrontations if Ennis were there.
Now, Ennis was damned polite when at the Twist ranch but he was completely ill at ease. No one likes to be around a hateful person especially if the hate is directed at them and John Twist was a bitter, hateful old bastard, meaner than a rattler-- with more venom than one. Old Man Twist could burn the paint off a pickup truck with the hate he had in his eyes! Ennis wouldn't take any abuse nor stood for seeing Jack abused either. Naw, it never would ‘a happened. That's what I think
I can imagine Ennis and Jack working their own place if times and things had been different, but never the Twist ranch, not no way not no how.
Rayn
stevenedel:
I didn't read all the posts here, so maybe this is redundant, but my overriding impression has always been that John Twist does not hate his son, but merely holds him in contempt. He regards Jack as a wet noodle, a spineless dreamer full of ideas that come to nothing. Interestingly, he shares that view with Lureen, who depicts him as an inconsequential dreamer too (as well as a boozer): "But knowing Jack, it might be some pretend place where the bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring." Both seem angry because Jack was never any help to them, and I do feel their view, however unsympathetic, carries some weight: both Twist and Lureen spent far more time with Jack than Ennis ever did; both, unlike Ennis, know how Jack (dys?)functioned in everyday life. Even the script says, in the tractor demo scene, that there is an air of boyish inanity about him. It makes me wonder how and even if Jack's dream of a 'sweet life' with Ennis could ever have really worked out.
What I also find interesting is that, in the movie at least, Jack does not seem to hate his father. He goes up to Lightning Flat to help him out occasionally; and he speaks of him with admiration when he tells Ennis John Twist used to be a well-known bull-rider in his day. In fact, Jack is trying to be what his father was, and his main disappointment seems to be that John Twist never taught him the tricks of the trade, nor showed any interest in his son's riding.
(It is very tempting to read all that on a metaphorical level, with bull-riding an obvious simile for gay lovemaking - the implication being that John Twist is gay, too, and angry and bitter because his son actively tried to lead the life he himself never had. In that case, his contempt may well be a cover-up for the reverse - a classically Freudian reaction-formation; and his refusal to let Ennis take the ashes to the mountain in essence amounts to a kind of posthumous revenge: "I had to fit in, so I'll make him fit in, too". ??? Hmm. Maybe that's taking things a little too far...).
serious crayons:
Well put and interesting observations, stevenedel.
BTW, I'd like to mention that there's another thread in which a discussion of Old Man Twist is currently going on that some people might find interesting:
--- Quote ---http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=3148.0
--- End quote ---
(The John Twist part begins at the end of the first page and continues through much of the second.)
There's a lot of overlap in the discussion here and the one on the other thread, so I wish we could find a way to get them together. Especially because the John Twist discussion is very interesting, and some people might not find it because it is not directly connected to the main topic of the thread. I'd like to get them all together, but once again I'm stymied by technological complications. But I encourage anyone interested in one to also check out the other.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: stevenedel on July 10, 2006, 01:42:08 pm ---(It is very tempting to read all that on a metaphorical level, with bull-riding an obvious simile for gay lovemaking - the implication being that John Twist is gay, too, and angry and bitter because his son actively tried to lead the life he himself never had. In that case, his contempt may well be a cover-up for the reverse - a classically Freudian reaction-formation; and his refusal to let Ennis take the ashes to the mountain in essence amounts to a kind of posthumous revenge: "I had to fit in, so I'll make him fit in, too". ??? Hmm. Maybe that's taking things a little too far...).
--- End quote ---
Wow! I've never thought of that possibility. Very interesting observation. Yup, the thread latjoreme mentions is very interesting to this line of thinking because the debate over there is over whether or not John Twist is really homophobic or just an asshole in a generalized sense (not specifically or exclusively homophobic). If a reading can be put forth that John Twist is a super-closeted gay man then the two issues might be very closely linked.
On another note, I do think that Jack strongly dislikes his father. Maybe "hate" is too strong a word. But, he seems very down on his father during the early bar chat with Ennis and he sounds almost spiteful when he talks later about his father's rodeo career.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version