Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
pinku:
Facinating to read such in-depth analysis! Almost like deciphering an encrypted message (even when there is none). I think even AP would have impressed with such posts. One shouldn't forget however that most statements uttered by people have no special meanings! For instance,when Jack's Dad says that he is too good to be buried in the family plot, it could well mean that because Jack was economically well-off and the old man gripes about it to hide his pain! I shouldn't say much cause the moderators think my posts are full of double meanings too!
Mikaela:
Wow - I already love this thread. So many good replies from everyone! :)
Mel, you've been on a roll here with the impressingly in-depth "Shit" analysis and the:
--- Quote ---"You have no idea how incoherent I get when I'm post-coital."
--- End quote ---
:D
That's *so* how it seems to me - Ennis's brain has short-circuited from the "brilliant charge" of that motel night - and the expectation of more to come. But for Alma his little line adds another layer of pain to her sadness, worry and confusion - she suspects (or knows, deep down) what they've been up to. She sees Jack, reclining blissfully against the truck outside, and here is Ennis, rushing around like an overcharged energizer bunny, rattling off that incoherent reply, - I'm sure she's very aware that he never behaved remotely like that either just before or after sex with *her*.
~~~~
About the "Fire and brimstone crowd"; - thank you for bringing that up, Katherine (Hope I got your name right.) I've been wondering about the background for that, whether there was any particular reason for Ennis calling them so at that point in time. Most likely, it's as you say:
--- Quote ---2) Pretty obvious: he doesn't want to hang out with churchy types who would judge him harshly if they knew he was gay.
--- End quote ---
I've been wondering though if there might have been any recent preaching specifically against the sin of homosexuality in their church that has made him less willing to mix with them and more willing to call them names than he originally might have been. The Stonewall riots were in 1969, the less-than-blissful Del Mar domestic Saturday night scene takes place in 1973 - time enough for even small rural community churches to have picked up on the issue and to have started being more active in preaching against it. In Ennis's early youth I imagine there wouldn't be such preaching - it would just be a given to all that it was an abomination and so forth, without anyone going publicly on about it.
That's just speculation on my side, of course, I know next to nothing at all about how (if at all) Stonewall reverberated throughout the country in those years and what went on in American rural church communities back then.
~~~
Now, here's another one I've been thinking about:
--- Quote ---"All I'm saying is, what's the point to making it? If the taxes don't get it, the inflation eats it all up. You should see Lureen, punching numbers into her adding machine, hunting for extra zeros, her eyes getting smalller and smaller, it's like watching a rabbit trying to squeeze into a snakehole with a coyote on its tail.
--- End quote ---
Which could mean:
1) - I've gotten used to being financially well off and I rather like it, so I've gotten into the common habit of all well-off people (ie. griping about taxes and inflation). I admire Lureen for her dedication to our family finances and the business - I look fondly at the way she just never gives up in that respect.
2) - All this work and stress to earn money is stupid - you're left with very little anyway, and money's not the most important part in life. It's ridiculous the way Lureen focuses so much on making money - I can't but laugh a little at her extreme single-mindedness.
Personally, I must admit I've always seen number 1) in what Jack says and in his expression while saying it, since I tend to think that Jack's and Lureen's marriage seems to be a well-functioning though platonic and even quite affectionate partnership for many years before it turns more sour towards the end.
nakymaton:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on May 24, 2006, 05:23:04 am ---I've been wondering though if there might have been any recent preaching specifically against the sin of homosexuality in their church that has made him less willing to mix with them and more willing to call them names than he originally might have been. The Stonewall riots were in 1969, the less-than-blissful Del Mar domestic Saturday night scene takes place in 1973 - time enough for even small rural community churches to have picked up on the issue and to have started being more active in preaching against it. In Ennis's early youth I imagine there wouldn't be such preaching - it would just be a given to all that it was an abomination and so forth, without anyone going publicly on about it.
That's just speculation on my side, of course, I know next to nothing at all about how (if at all) Stonewall reverberated throughout the country in those years and what went on in American rural church communities back then.
--- End quote ---
*Counts on fingers* I think I was going to a Methodist church in 1973, though I was too young to know anything about it beyond Bible stories and potlucks. But from that time until the early 1980's (when I decided that I would actually rather be a heathen), my church, at least, didn't ever mention homosexuality. Granted, the Methodist church varies a great deal from place to place; my particular branch was more concerned on the surface with world peace and helping the poor, but this was rural New England, not the West. I learned homophobia through other kids, I think, who used "gay" and "lesbian" as threatening put-downs. (Within my particular rural church community, the most obvious bigotry was still actually anti-Catholic bigotry, even ten or twenty years after John F. Kennedy was president.)
One thing I remember, though, is that the church-goers really tended to be predominantly women. I don't know why. (I do know that the church community disapproved of drinking and smoking and swearing, although none of those things were ever discussed in sermons. And that the social conformity seemed to be stronger -- or I should say "even stronger" -- there wasn't much space for people who were "different" in any way, even outside the church's social circle.)
Meryl:
Great thread! :)
I have no time to think of something with two meanings, so I'll contribute something I think is pretty clear in itself:
"Sit down, you old son of a bitch! This is my house! This is my child! And you're my guest! So sit the hell down, or I'll knock your ignorant ass into next week...."
;D
Mikaela:
Oh, I don't know, Meryl - I'm sure Mel could do analytical wonders with the possible meanings inherent in "ignorant ass". ;D And "son of a bitch", now - the way Jack uses that term in the movie is worth a study in itself, of course. From "I love you" till "I detest you", - and anything in between! But otherwise - yep. Pretty clear and to the point. Go Jack! :-*
Mel, thanks for the reply to the "preaching comment". Seems pretty certain then that Ennis isn't much keen on the Fire and Brimstone crowd for various reasons as latjoreme suggests , but none of them being actual and active preaching against homosexuality. It's hard to imagine now what a non-topic that really still was, back in the 70's.
Hmmmmm. One more multiple-meaning line coming up:
Maybe he's not the marrying kind
1) I have no idea what he might want to do - emotionally he's a closed book, even to me.
2) Well, I sure hope not, because I'd be jealous if a new wife'd claim his attention - I see so little of him as it is
3) He's more the type to love them and leave them and break their hearts, so be warned (yeah, right ::) )
4) No, duh - not very likely, since I think he may be gay!
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