Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
Mikaela:
--- Quote from: goadra on June 06, 2006, 08:02:45 am ---Ennis nearly follows in his father’s footsteps by threatening to “do the job” to Jack: During the final lake scene, “What I don’t know...”
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Yes. And his "boys like you" line very well might have made his father proud, too. :'(
Arguably, Ennis may even have beeninstrumental in bringing about Jack's death through trying to avoid that very fate. Ennis keeping the two of them so firmly apart made Jack seek out other men, - and if Jack did die in a gay-bashing then it was him being with other men that made the bashers target him, - with no Ennis there to help fight them back.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on June 06, 2006, 07:21:58 am ---(I’m really sorry this turned out so long. I was thinking of perhaps creating a separate thread on this, but I suppose the topic of parents and children, esp. fathers and sons in BBM must have been debated to exhaustion and beyond a long time ago, before I ever came to this board.)
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Ha, when I first saw your post I thought, Wow! Now I don't feel so bad about my own long posts! ;)
But Mikaela, this is worth every word! What a thoughtful, sensitive and well-written analysis (and no, personally I have never seen this subject analyzed in this kind of detail -- if you have still more to say on the topic of parents and children, by all means do start a new thread!).
I don't think there's anything you say that I disagree with, and a lot of your observations really deepened my understanding of the issue. Some wonderful points: The idea that we're set up to think well of Ennis' dad, sharpening the contrast and shock when he finally tells the story. The idea that, once his dad was dead, it becomes even harder for Ennis to rebel against his prejudices. The way the flashback is filmed to suggest that its message is conveyed by all of the society to its boys in general, rather just from a lesson from one father to his son(s). The faceless dad, the heavy hand on the neck (and that boy's neck is so thin and fragile looking -- whenever I see that scene it makes my own neck hurt!). The many Greek tragedy-like layers of irony that ripple out as consequences of this murder. All really, really awesome insights. Thanks for writing this!
So here's a question, especially for you story fans (Mel?). How much of this emotional/psychological stuff is there in the story, and how much is fully developed only in the film? Of course, the basic plot is certainly all there in the story. But I'll have to say that when I read it, I do not get as vivid a sense of how much Ennis' father's actions and attitudes emotionally damaged his son. I read it more simply: having witnessed Earl's awful fate, Ennis quite understandably considered it too dangerous to live with Jack. But I admit I don't fully appreciate the story as much as I should or could, so maybe I just didn't grasp this aspect in enough depth.
Sheriff Roland:
Catherine brought me here to read your post Mikaela, and I'm Sooo glad she did. Thanks Catherine, And thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, Mikaela for that wonderfully insightful interpretation of that relationship and it's consequences. It should go straight to the archives. In the very least, you should start a new thread with that post, before it gets buried by well deserved accolades.
Penthesilea:
Roland is right: more accolades from my side. Your long post is very worth reading and you should make another topic on this.
But kudos to the others who have contributed on this thread for the last days, too. So many interesting thoughts in elaborated posts. :-* to all of you.
Nakymaton asked a specific question:
--- Quote ---Personally, I don't think that Ennis intended to have sex with Jack again after the first time, and that Jack is trying to give a reason why they can continue. I don't think Ennis intended for the second tent scene to happen... he seems to be fighting with himself until he finally heads for the tent. And he doesn't seem sure that's what he wants until he finally begins to respond to Jack's kiss.
(I wish Mikaela were here for this conversation... I think she had an insight based on the subtitles on the version of the movie that played in her country.
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I'm not Mikaela, but I saw the movie dubbed in another language. In my language the sentence in question was: "This was a one-shot-thing."
Nothing with "going on here" and clearly in past tense. This backs up your interpretation, that Ennis didn't intend for a second tent scene. But it has only a limited weight, because there are many clear mistakes in the dubbed version. For example, they mix up "elk" with "moose". And, at their last evening together, they let Jack say "Everytime I go to see the ranchneighbour's wife, somebody shoots at me."
My thought on this is that Ennis meant "only this summer", and therefore the present tense. The scene with Ennis at the campfire, fighting with his emotions, still makes sense with this interpreation.
cricket99999:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on June 06, 2006, 01:11:20 pm ---And, at their last evening together, they let Jack say "Everytime I go to see the ranchneighbour's wife, somebody shoots at me."
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No way! :D
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