Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on June 06, 2006, 01:01:38 am ---Man, this movie is so incredibly ambiguous. I see the exact same scene and read it as, Ennis sitting by the campfire already knows that he wants to go into the tent but he's really nervous about it -- not just because he's homophobic but because this is something he's never done before (maybe with a woman, either) and he's both excited and fearful. When he finally does go in, he is perfectly willing but it's such a foreign experience for him that he's not exactly sure how to proceed and it takes him a while to relax into it. But, with help from Jack's "s'alrights," he does!
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Before I respond to all the other conversation that's taken place since this comment... I just want to jump in and say that this is exactly how I read Ennis's behavior on the night of the 2nd tent scene too. To me his awkwardness is all about being nervous. His little glance towards the tent to see what Jack's doing just speaks volumes to me about Ennis's "desire" here. Also, we've talked before about how in this scene Ennis is warm (the fire is still high) and Jack does not call to him or overtly suggest that he come into the tent. Ennis makes the move all on his own and without anything like "being cold" as an excuse. This leads back into the contrasts between tent scene #1 and #2 (which is a whole topic of its own). But, to pick up on nakymaton's point... at the exact moment that Ennis says "one shot deal" on the hillside... I still don't know what he's thinking. Maybe he's so confused he doesn't know what he means himself.
It's cute that they feel they need to have a conversation about it though... any conversation. I also love that Jack went up the mountain to the sheep to sort of demonstrate his eagerness to guage Ennis's state of mind and that Ennis felt compelled to go and acknowledge the need to talk.
I'll have to come back to this thread tomorrow to jump into the rest of the conversation. Gotta go grab 40 winks.
:)
Mikaela:
--- Quote ---Ennis and Jack both use that phrase, and both talk about getting killed for it (Jack jokingly).
--- End quote ---
Very interesting. I hadn't made that connection.
I don't think they use the phrase the same way - I think Jack is all too aware that the strength of his and Ennis's passion is as a blazing camp fire compared to the flickering match of what he's got going with Randall. So on the surface the expression is an euphemism in both cases for a connection with another, that they can't (Ennis) or won't(Jack) be more specific about when speaking out loud.
I do think that there may be a deliberate foreshadowing and foreboding in its use, though. Perhaps a symbolic warning to Ennis of what is to come, though if he ever realized that it wasn't till after Jack was dead. :'( The link in Ennis's mind between his particular use of the "this thing" expression and the immediate risk of gay bashing/death occurring is direct and strong. When Jack later uses the expression, it's about a relationship that doesn't carry the same depth of emotion or passion (IMO), - but it nevertheless carries exactly the same *risk* of gay bashing and death.
In fact, it's likely that it was Jack's "thing" with Randall that did get Jack killed. (From information about deleted scenes/ shooting script I've seen, it seems the film originally intended to be much less ambiguous about Jack's fate and the fact that he was gay bashed due to someone seeing him with Randall).
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: goadra on June 07, 2006, 03:34:49 am ---I wasn’t sure where to ask this, but I’ve been wondering about “this thing.” Ennis and Jack both use that phrase, and both talk about getting killed for it (Jack jokingly). When Ennis uses it, he’s clearly talking about something serious. Jack’s surface meaning is that his “thing” is just a fling (Ennis takes it that way), but is there a double meaning, too? I really don’t like the idea of his using the phrase the same way as Ennis (no offense to Randall).
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This thing: Good ideas, goadra and Mikaela. I agree they're not using the phrase the same way. But now that you point out the reference in both cases to gay bashing -- Jack unwittingly, of course -- I don't think it's accidental. In both cases it actually refers to gay relationship, and maybe Jack's use is a symbolic tipoff that his fling with the ranch foreman's wife is actually with the ranch foreman. Not that anyone would get it, neither Ennis nor 99.9 percent of the audience, but when did that ever stop them?
And goadra, I like your other translations, too! Cassie's "you're safe" could actually be read both ways -- with her, he's safe from other people's suspicions.
And "this ain't no rodeo" -- that's a nice reading of it. I'd like to hear nakymaton's other suggestions, as well. The whole lassooing thing -- Ennis casually tossing the first loop off, but then getting caught in the second, but fighting back -- seems kind of laden with subtext, doesn't it?
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: goadra on June 07, 2006, 03:34:49 am ---I can’t possibly address all the comments that have arrived today, so I’ll just post a few “double meaning” ideas (and then maybe get some sleep).
* “I don’t need your money.” >> “It’s you I need.”
* “This ain’t no rodeo, cowboy.” >> “What happened this summer means a lot more than ridin’ some piece of stock for 8 seconds.” (nakymaton suggested a couple others a while back)
* “You’re wasting your time here.” >> “Working for me is a waste of your time.”
* “Take your friend to the Knife & Fork.” >> If Alma said this after meeting Jack, she’d probably mean a real knife and fork.
* “Oh, you got a kid?” >> “You’re more tied down than I thought.”
* “You’re safe.” (Cassie) >> “Don’t worry, you’re not going to fall in love with me.”
I wasn’t sure where to ask this, but I’ve been wondering about “this thing.” Ennis and Jack both use that phrase, and both talk about getting killed for it (Jack jokingly). When Ennis uses it, he’s clearly talking about something serious. Jack’s surface meaning is that his “thing” is just a fling (Ennis takes it that way), but is there a double meaning, too? I really don’t like the idea of his using the phrase the same way as Ennis (no offense to Randall).
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These are all great suggestions! I like the "ain't no rodeo" idea and the "don't need your money" idea.
I translate the words "thing" and "this" as "attraction," "affair", or even "love" depending on the circumstance. In the motel Jack says "swear to God, I didn't know we were going to get into this again..." I see this word as parallel to Ennis's "thing." It's interesting that Jack never says the word "love" to Ennis in the movie either (but we all tend to focus on this problem with Ennis's language towards Jack). It seems that Jack's expression of affection is much less ambiguous than Ennis's (and the "sometimes I miss you so much..." line comes pretty close to "I love you"... I wonder if he was weighing whether or not he could safely say "I love you" to Ennis during that conversation). But, Jack's still a little conflicted in his language too (often I do think this is because he's being very careful in always guaging how he thinks Ennis will react to certain things). Here in the motel when Jack says "this" it's intriguingly coupled with "swear". I keep coming back to this line, which seems fun and lighthearted of course, as also very significant.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: atz75 on June 08, 2006, 12:32:12 am --- Here in the motel when Jack says "this" it's intriguingly coupled with "swear". I keep coming back to this line, which seems fun and lighthearted of course, as also very significant.
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What I like is, it's the one time Jack seems more coy than Ennis. He may have redlined it, but Ennis was the one who got into this again, with no hesitation!
Mmm. I just love the reunion scene. :-*
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