Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
Brown Eyes:
I just posted this in the new thread about Ennis's reaction to Jack's death... but I thought I'd post it here too.
It occurs to me that during the phone call with Ennis, Lureen's statement that she thought Brokeback Mountain was "some pretend place" is very poignant because in actuality it's true. In the real world Brokeback Mountain is a fictional place. To me, this just adds to the sense that Brokeback was an ideal paradise that truly can't be accessed again.
:(
About the sorority conversation... I don't know enough about the politics of sororities to know much about the context of their conversation. But, the tone of voice is enough to imply that there's a bit of competitiveness. I certainly wouldn't call it a "catfight." I think they're just trying to figure one another out. I would think that the person who'd feel the most threatened by this conversation would be Jack. Clearly, the women and Randall are all college educated, so I'd think Jack would feel like the "black sheep" here once again. I actually think LaShawn is trying to reach out to Lureen a little bit by saying "we ain't quite sorority sisters...", implying that they are close to being so. I think primarily LaShawn is trying to be friendly and social. One of my favorite "double" meanings in LaShawn's conversation is when she says "we may just have to dance with ourselves..." It's one of the only allusions to something even vaguely lesbian in the movie. In the bar when Jack first meets Lureen there's a pair of women who seem to be walking around together and I've always wondered if we're meant to see them as a possible couple too. I think so much of this movie is about questioning typical and conventional interpretations of people and comments.
coffeecat33:
Wow! I just read this thread and my head is buzzing! My words are tripping over themselves. I LOVE to analyze things and I'm so happy that I found Bettermost and to know there are "people like me out there." (Is that a pun??) Anyway... referring back to earlier posts. It's funny but today for the first time (before I read this forum) I thought, Mar means water but also damage. Then I read it here, too.
About some Double Meanings:
The over-obvious loquacious plumber butt shoveling asphalt w/Ennis: “…I’m getting’ too old to be breakin’ my back shoveling asphalt.”
The scene of Alma discovering yet another postcard “Fish should be jumpin” – Jack (one of Annie Proulx' books is Postcards isn't it?) which she puts out of sight in the newspaper featuring a special on honey to Jack saying to Lurene, "Honey have you seen my blue parka?" And Lureen answers "The last time I seen it you was in it...that day we had that big ice storm." Of course the movie, "Ice Storm" was directed by Ang Lee. (And for those who haven't seen it, ice coats and freezes everything. A tragic movie where everyone is alienated and in isolation - kinda like Ennis in the snow.)
The scene at the dance with Jack, Lureen, Lashawn and Randall there is much rancor going on beneath the surface (or under the sheet of ice). Lureen would have always been the biggest, prettiest, richest fish in the little pond of Childress, wouldn't she? So she's used to "being on top" (as in the scene w/her and Jack where they do it in her daddy's caddy.) Obviously Lashawn is kinda trashy (so is Lureen but she won't admit it!) and telling Lashawn her sorority is better (richer?) than Lashawn's is a way of putting Lashawn down. I posted this is another forum, but the first time Jack & Lureen meet they dance (it breaks my heart to see the look on Jack's face when he hears the word, "lonely" in the song) and then they have sex. At the dance, some years later, they don't dance ("husbands don't never seem to dance with their wives." and I think we can assume they don't have sex anymore. To further provoke Lureen, Jack asks Lashawn to dance, because he won't dance with his wife. For a a charity affair, "Benefit for the Childress County Children's Home" - none of the characters are being especially charitable. (Childress = childless? chill dress? chilled ...?)
And one more comment on an earlier post. It took a couple of viewings but Jack's father-in-law, L.D. says about the football game, "You want your son to grow up to be a man, (man=hetero) don't you, daughter?" (although he looks at Jack) then "Boys should watch football." Watch Jack's face when the Ignorant Ass/Dumbass Mule says that.
>>whew!!<< didn't mean to ramble on so much! It's just that once you see one connection it just continues to build like a huge beautiful spider web.
For a later discussion on double meaning, I love this line and would like to hear other's opinions, “Doubt there’s a filly that can throw me.” And later, “eh,...she got lucky.” - Jack
:)
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: coffeecat33 on July 23, 2006, 07:29:12 pm ---Wow! I just read this thread and my head is buzzing! My words are tripping over themselves. I LOVE to analyze things and I'm so happy that I found Bettermost and to know there are "people like me out there." (Is that a pun??) Anyway... referring back to earlier posts. It's funny but today for the first time (before I read this forum) I thought, Mar means water but also damage. Then I read it here, too.
--- End quote ---
coffeecat33, you've definitely come to the right place! This forum is filled with tons of threads devoted to tons of analysis there are also quite a few serious film analysis threads over in Chez Tremblay if you poke around a bit. Yes, there are lots of "people like you" out here on BetterMost.
I also love Jack's face, as you point out, in his dance with Lureen... with the "lonely" in the lyric. It echos the moment when Ennis is sitting on the edge of the bed with Alma and she talks about being "lonely." It's been pointed out by some of our lovely BetterMostians that Ennis's face changes upon hearing the word "lonely" too. It's much more subtle in Ennis's case. But, I think this is meant to be a parallel between the boys long distance. The song that Jack and Lureen dance to is really quite ominous and sort of threatening when you really listen to the lyrics. Very possessive lyics when it comes to the idea of being in love.
coffeecat33:
--- Quote ---It echos the moment when Ennis is sitting on the edge of the bed with Alma and she talks about being "lonely." It's been pointed out by some of our lovely BetterMostians that Ennis's face changes upon hearing the word "lonely" too. It's much more subtle in Ennis's case. But, I think this is meant to be a parallel between the boys long distance.
--- End quote ---
by atz75
Yes, I had noted that parallel or bookend, of scenes with Ennis and Jack when they hear the word,"lonely." Both scenes end with the men having sex with women - Lureen on top of Jack in a "dominant" position and Ennis takes Alma the way he took Jack.
cc33
stevenedel:
--- Quote from: atz75 on July 23, 2006, 02:30:41 pm ---I just posted this in the new thread about Ennis's reaction to Jack's death... but I thought I'd post it here too.About the sorority conversation... I don't know enough about the politics of sororities to know much about the context of their conversation. But, the tone of voice is enough to imply that there's a bit of competitiveness. I certainly wouldn't call it a "catfight." I think they're just trying to figure one another out. I would think that the person who'd feel the most threatened by this conversation would be Jack. Clearly, the women and Randall are all college educated, so I'd think Jack would feel like the "black sheep" here once again. I actually think LaShawn is trying to reach out to Lureen a little bit by saying "we ain't quite sorority sisters...", implying that they are close to being so. I think primarily LaShawn is trying to be friendly and social. One of my favorite "double" meanings in LaShawn's conversation is when she says "we may just have to dance with ourselves..." It's one of the only allusions to something even vaguely lesbian in the movie. In the bar when Jack first meets Lureen there's a pair of women who seem to be walking around together and I've always wondered if we're meant to see them as a possible couple too. I think so much of this movie is about questioning typical and conventional interpretations of people and comments.
--- End quote ---
Maybe 'catfight' is a bit strong ;D Still, I don't find the scene at all friendly. No doubt Lashawn's intentions are OK, she simply talks so fast that she hasn't got the time to think what she is saying. But Lureen, says the screenplay, is bored stiff, and I do believe she feels insulted by Lashawns remark and feels the need to stress her own superiority. Jack, though detached, appears completely at ease to me - he doesn't seem the type to be impressed by academic titles.
The lesbian angle is an interesting one, hadn't considered that (but that's probably caused by the fact that to a gay man, lesbians may well be the most incomprehensible creatures on the face of the earth ;) )
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