Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
Mikaela:
--- Quote ---That line stumps me, too. (Unless she means that Jack’s wishes were really to be with this man on the end of the line … ?
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I think you're on to something in what you say last. I think Lureen feels that just saying "They'd appreciate it if his wishes were carried out" might be interpreted as her yielding too much place, extending more open-ended acceptance than she intends to.
After all, it probably was Jack's wish to be with Ennis, at their favourite place - and if so he may have had other wide-ranging wishes relating to the relationship with this man. Lureen can't know what wishes those were, what Jack may have told his parents or Ennis.
By qualifying her statement to be sure Ennis knows it's specifically about the ashes, she's at the same time saying she's not willing to give up *her* considerable claim on Jack, her part in his life story - not willing to reduce the importance of their marriage. Whatever else Jack got up to in life - she loved him and she held on to him even when things got difficult. She's not about to accept someone usurping her place at this point in time even if that conceivably might have been Jack's wish.
dly64:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on July 28, 2006, 05:52:07 pm ---I think you're on to something in what you say last. I think Lureen feels that just saying "They'd appreciate it if his wishes were carried out" might be interpreted as her yielding too much place, extending more open-ended acceptance than she intends to.
After all, it probably was Jack's wish to be with Ennis, at their favourite place - and if so he may have had other wide-ranging wishes relating to the relationship with this man. Lureen can't know what wishes those were, what Jack may have told his parents or Ennis.
By qualifying her statement to be sure Ennis knows it's specifically about the ashes, she's at the same time saying she's not willing to give up *her* considerable claim on Jack, her part in his life story - not willing to reduce the importance of their marriage. Whatever else Jack got up to in life - she loved him and she held on to him even when things got difficult. She's not about to accept someone usurping her place at this point in time even if that conceivably might have been Jack's wish.
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Excellently stated! You have put in an additional twist (no pun intended) that I previously had not considered …. Lureen’s role and importance in Jack’s life (and vice versa).
stevenedel:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on July 27, 2006, 03:21:49 pm ---Yes, a covert fight, sure enough..... I don't think Lureen is (yet) aware of the homosexuality - I think that comes later, probably just before or just as she learns of Jack's death. I've got nothing really to point to as evidence for that - only that I feel certain Lureen would have divorced Jack if she'd known - and I feel equally certain that she *knows* by the time Ennis calls her. She knows by then about Jack being gay, but who he *loved* doesn't fall into place until the conversation with Ennis.
(...)
I think Lureen loves her husband till the end. If she didn't, she'd have divorced him. She's goodlooking, she's got money, she's got brains, she's not the kind of woman who'd keep a loveless marriage going for the sake of their son, her folks would be thrilled if she showed Jack the door, - she could have found a new husband easily. And if Alma could divorce Ennis, society's disapproval would hardly have deterred Lureen. Yet she and Jack stay married till the end. I see only one reason for that, - Lureen loves her husband. Another part of the nuanced tragedy that BBM presents to us. Lureen drowns herself in work and number-crunching and visits to the hairdresser, and while the bitterness grows she still hopes he'll one day love her back, hopes for a change, - that doesn't come.
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I agree with you, Mikaela, that had Lureen known Jack was gay, she would have divorced him on the spot. I strongly doubt that she ever draws that conclusion, even after he dies. It is, from her perspective, simply something that doesn't come to mind. If, during the phone conversation, she is indeed sad about Jack, and not simply sorry for herself, I think it is because she comes to realize how little she knew the man she was married to.
But I don't see their marriage as a very loving one; more like a marriage of convenience between two people who like each other well enough. I think she gives up on Jack fairly early on; just think of the tractor demo scene, and her disappointed look when the two farmers make disparaging remarks about her husband. The screenplay at this point actually describes Jack as "boyishly inane". From what she tells Ennis, we can deduce that she saw Jack as a boozer who lived in a fantasy world. In their marriage, the traditional male/female roles are completely reversed, and the one time they aren't, i.e., when Jack confronts LD during the Thanksgiving dinner, is the one time during their marriage when we see her being visibly pleased with him.
dly64:
--- Quote from: stevenedel on July 29, 2006, 05:33:31 am ---But I don't see their marriage as a very loving one; more like a marriage of convenience between two people who like each other well enough. I think she gives up on Jack fairly early on; just think of the tractor demo scene, and her disappointed look when the two farmers make disparaging remarks about her husband. The screenplay at this point actually describes Jack as "boyishly inane". From what she tells Ennis, we can deduce that she saw Jack as a boozer who lived in a fantasy world. In their marriage, the traditional male/female roles are completely reversed, and the one time they aren't, i.e., when Jack confronts LD during the Thanksgiving dinner, is the one time during their marriage when we see her being visibly pleased with him.
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You must have been reading my mind! Darn if I didn't say the exact same thing in a different thread a few moments ago!
stevenedel:
--- Quote from: dly64 on July 29, 2006, 06:17:55 pm ---You must have been reading my mind! Darn if I didn't say the exact same thing in a different thread a few moments ago!
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I've been practising my ESP, and its paying off... ;)
Where do I find your comment, I'm curious... ?
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