Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on May 31, 2006, 04:55:22 am ---Anyway, it does strike me how easily the "girls don't fall in love with fun" can be flipped to mirror the other side of the Ennis/Cassie relationship (not only Ennis/Jack). Ennis sure didn't and couldn't fall in love with fun either, even when it was smiling brightly at him and making him dance to jaunty tunes and requesting foot rubs: Cassie *was* a real fun girl when they first met.
--- End quote ---
Hey there Mikaela and Katherine! This is a great conversation. Mikaela I agree with almost all of the points you've been making. And, I also tend to try to see the relationship between Jack and Ennis in a postive optimistic way. I think this moment with Cassie and the bluntness of the discussion and the tension during the argument with Jack really may have led Ennis to be ready to make a change finally. A huge part of the tragedy of the movie is the timing of this... if only Jack had lived who knows what might have happened for the two of them. The revelations for Ennis come too late. People have questioned whether Jack is already dead by the time the pie and Cassie scene comes and I'm increasingly believing that he is.
But, as to the specific quote about "fun"... like I said in my post above, I do think Ennis fell in love with fun. Not with Cassie obviously, but with Jack. I think Jack's sense of fun and light-heartedness was a big part of the attraction for Ennis. And the importance of their ability to goof around and genuinely have fun together probably shouldn't be under-estimated. They had such difficult lives that being able to lighten-up and have fun must have been really significant. I think their ability to have "fun" together also is deeply linked to how much they understand one another.
Meryl:
--- Quote from: atz75 on May 31, 2006, 09:50:00 pm ---But, as to the specific quote about "fun"... like I said in my post above, I do think Ennis fell in love with fun. Not with Cassie obviously, but with Jack. I think Jack's sense of fun and light-heartedness was a big part of the attraction for Ennis. And the importance of their ability to goof around and genuinely have fun together probably shouldn't be under-estimated. They had such difficult lives that being able to lighten-up and have fun must have been really significant. I think their ability to have "fun" together also is deeply linked to how much they understand one another.
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I think you're right about fun being a big part of how Ennis fell in love with Jack, Amanda. Just looking at them playing on the day after the second tent scene was a revelation. You just knew that this was something new for Ennis and felt his exhilaration. Then BOOM, we saw Aguirre observing the whole thing and were reminded of the crushing weight of society's judgment. :(
So what do you think it was that Cassie did fall in love with? ;)
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: meryl on May 31, 2006, 10:23:13 pm ---So what do you think it was that Cassie did fall in love with? ;)
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Meryl, I think the answer to this question is readily obvious from a quick flip through the "Heath Heath Heath" thread. (Or, for that matter, from your avatar! Or mine!) ;)
Back to the fun issue, I agree, that IS a big part of why Ennis fell in love with Jack.
nakymaton:
I want to answer the question about "does he love you?", but I think I have to re-watch the scene to do justice to it. But, see, it's at the end of the movie, and I can't just put the DVD in without seeing Jack alive, can I? Or without watching them be happy on the mountain? Or seeing the reunion? Or...? Well, anyway, you can see my dilemma. ;D
Aside from anything to do with Jack, the line reflects a big change in attitudes about marriage -- not just for Ennis, but for society in general. I read an interesting article in Newsweek/MS-NBC the other day (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13006808/site/newsweek/) that followed up on a 1986 Newsweek story about how unmarried women over 30 were doomed to be single for life. Ok, the article isn't really relevant, but something I read elsewhere by the same historian might be: that marriage is changing because it is transforming from a societal expectation (at the extreme end, arranged marriages to cement alliances and so forth) to a pact of love between two adults. (The whole "Defense of Marriage" nonsense, according to the other article by the same author, is trying to go back to an intermediate form of marriage, something halfway between arranged marriages and marriage for love.)
Anyway, the point for Ennis and Alma Jr. is that Ennis married because he was doing what he was expected to do. (Well, we don't know for sure, either in the book or in the movie, but I at least assume that Ennis was engaged to Alma because somebody - family or church or mutual acquaintance - set them up, and not because Ennis thought he was in love with Alma.) But he hopes that his daughter is marrying for other reasons. (And, as a friend pointed out to me a while back, he also might be making sure that his daughter's fiance falls in love with women and not men... ;) )
I think the echoes of the relationship with Jack ("You're nineteen years old..." "Does he love you?") are significant too, though.
I think Mikaela and tiawahcowboy did a great job of summing up what was probably going through Ennis's head during "I just can't stand this no more..."
(Now. Alma Jr. + shirts, or happy times on the mountain...? *flips coin* )
nakymaton:
(Hey, at least I'm not quoting myself, even if I'm posting after myself... ;D )
Ok. *wipes away tears* Tell you what, that scene is even harder to take in isolation than it is at the end of the movie, I think.
Ennis is awkward and - I don't know, lonely looking maybe? - when Jr. spills out all the wedding plans. He looks more bereft than protective. And then after he asks "Does he love you?", Ennis looks to his right and there's a silence filled only by the sound of - yeah, you guessed it - wind. And then Ennis looks so lonely as he makes his usual sad excuses. Waaah. :'( :'( :'( He really is cut off and alone, isn't he?
I don't know if it's a sign that Ennis has concluded that love is what is important. But it sure looks to me like he's missing Jack so much he can hardly stand it. :'( :'( :'(
And in that same scene... "If you don't got nothin', then you don't need nothin'." (Screenplay line; don't make me go back and check the scene on the DVD. I've got to go off to my Happy Place and watch the "cowboys are all f***-ups" scene or something.) Anyway, wanna pick apart that one?
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