Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Why the Lie?
opinionista:
--- Quote ---Since I took courses in Spanish and French in university, I also know that some expressions in those languages did not translate too well into English. In some cases, American English had no expression comparable to the original language because the expression was related to something that only a Native speaker would understand. So, rather than just attempt to mentally translate/interpret the original into English, it was better to just try to think in the original language. Sort of OT here; but, in 1990 I was a US Census Enumerator who did follow-up interviews at residences of those who improperly filled out their original forms, never mailed them in or never received them in the first place. While I did have the official Spanish language questionnaires, they were written in standardized Spanish for those who were actually studied Spanish grammar in classes which was in their first language.
But, most of the people with whom I talked were from Mexico and they did not have many formal classes in their native language. Since I had learned a number of "border-slang" expressions, which were called "bizcochos," "biscuits" in English translations, meaning they were hispanicized English words, I had to substitue the "biscuits" for the formal words so they would not what I was talking about.
--- End quote ---
This doesn't make you a language expert. I'm sure the ones who translated this story into Spanish or any other language, knew how to do their job.
nakymaton:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 26, 2006, 01:17:40 am ---But imagine him even having to say the word "Brokeback" to her, given all he must associate with that word. She would never guess anything from it, but it would feel like a violation to him. (The only time he ever does say it to anyone, Lureen immediately grasps its significance.) He keeps the information to himself less to avoid hurting her or to let something slip about his sexuality than to prevent Alma's awareness from intruding on his memories of that beautiful sacrosanct time.
--- End quote ---
I want to go back to this, because it's a really cool observation. I think it's really sad that Ennis never even says "Brokeback" to anyone -- not even to Jack. (Jack's the one who says "Brokeback got us good" and "All we've got is Brokeback Mountain," and asks Aguirre if he's got "anything up on Brokeback," and at least tells Lureen that he wants his ashes spread there. But Ennis? He never even says its name.)
I wonder if Ennis mentions being "fishing buddies" precisely because that's one of the few things that men do together, but that he never did with Jack? (Hunting... elk... Jack. Camping... tent... Jack. Rodeo... Jack. Riding horses... mare with a low startle point... Jack.)
vkm91941:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on May 30, 2006, 01:19:55 pm ---I want to go back to this, because it's a really cool observation. I think it's really sad that Ennis never even says "Brokeback" to anyone -- not even to Jack. (Jack's the one who says "Brokeback got us good" and "All we've got is Brokeback Mountain," and asks Aguirre if he's got "anything up on Brokeback," and at least tells Lureen that he wants his ashes spread there. But Ennis? He never even says its name.)
I wonder if Ennis mentions being "fishing buddies" precisely because that's one of the few things that men do together, but that he never did with Jack? (Hunting... elk... Jack. Camping... tent... Jack. Rodeo... Jack. Riding horses... mare with a low startle point... Jack.)
--- End quote ---
You could be on to something here Mel. That summer on Brokeback changed something in Ennis forever, even though he dutifully went home and married Alma like he said he would. Perhaps he wanted to keep everything "Real" about him and Jack, and that summer just for himself in order to keep it precious and unpolluted in his memory.
tiawahcowboy:
--- Quote from: opinionista on May 30, 2006, 01:14:02 pm ---This doesn't make you a language expert. I'm sure the ones who translated this story into Spanish or any other language, knew how to do their job.
--- End quote ---
Does two college degrees in Spanish major with a French minor make me sort of an expert on those two languages? I did quite a few literature courses in those languages while earning a Bachelor of Arts in Education and a Master of Education. For each degree, both Spanish and Education were my majors. Some of the literature was written in the regional dialects of Spain and in the Hispanic language countries of North and South America, too.
If you have the book that is translated into Spanish, it should tell you at the front of the book who did the translating. You can either find it on the Title page or the next page behind it.
Does your book have the following in it?
AUTOR Proulx, E. Annie
TITULO En terreno vedado : historias de Wyoming / Annie Proulx ; [traducción de María Corniero]
PUBLICAC Madrid : Siglo XXI de España editores, 2001
Mikaela:
I do think Ennis didn't tell Alma anything of emotional importance to him about his summer job on the mountain; - but I do think he had to tell her something. Returning to his fiancee after months away, he had to say something, tell the barest outline of how the summer went. He and Alma were on speaking terms back then after all - however taciturn Ennis was! So I've imagined he told as little as possible, kept to the general truth about the sheep and the weather etc. - and changed the description of the guy he was working with. Of course I don't think he'd elaborate - just a comment or two to make him into someone entirely else, not very interesting, not worthy of further talk or descriptions. (Perhaps he used the Basque as his model for that? :) ) But then, when the card from Jack arrives, he can't under any circumstance suddenly go against the previous white lies and say this is the guy I was sheepherding with. He has to find some other tale to tell.
--- Quote ---(Hunting... elk... Jack. Camping... tent... Jack. Rodeo... Jack. Riding horses... mare with a low startle point... Jack.)
--- End quote ---
I like this very much, but he does say "Jack, he rodeos, mostly." And after that whole rodeo fuck-up sequence and the belt buckle and everything you'd think he'd keep the rodeoing part of Jack's life pretty sacrosanct, too?
Though it's probably unimaginative of me, I think the "fishing" thing was just a spur of the moment idea to give Alma *something*, something realistic - without indicating he'd actually ever worked with Jack. Ennis leaves the room in a hurry - he sure doesn't want her to see his face there - but also it precludes further immediate questions concerning where and when they knew each other. I wonder if he made up some further couple of details to the fishing buddy tale to tell her, just in case she asked again?
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