Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Why the Lie?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on May 30, 2006, 01:52:27 pm ---His exact words are:
I come by to say that if you want me to take his ashes up there on Brokeback like his wife said he wanted, I'd be proud to.
He also uses Brokeback in the conversation with Lureen. So he only ever says the name after jack is dead. :'(
--- End quote ---
Thanks, Mikaela! With the addition of "I'd be proud to," my interpretation -- that his use of the word is an acknowlegement -- makes even more sense to me. It implies a contrasting "I was ashamed of our relationship before." And if he says it to Lureen, that underscores it also, because it's that line that tips off Lureen about their relationship.
starboardlight:
--- Quote from: J on May 30, 2006, 12:05:42 am ---Hey, thanks Starboardlight, that is a wonderful resource! I have already visited it, and it is rich beyond imagining. Questions though, stuff at Geocities has a tendency to get dead when the person who hosted it moves on, will BetterMost set up a contingency plan for this possibility? I certainly hope that we have BetterMost in our lives for a long long long time!
I am a relative newcomer to this wonderful community, (only saw BBM on April 14th if you can believe it) and I can't think of a more opportune time to ask this so here goes: I have gleaned from what I have read that the IMDb Brokeback Mountain messageboard was attended very early, in fact even before the movie was released. It got busy in Dec and Jan, and at some point (in Jan?) the serious posters branched off into a Secret Society called Pierre Tremblay, the name of the Assistant Producer of our beloved BBM. They did it to escape the demonic trolls, and membership in this elite group was by invitation only. Here comes the question: (actually 2 or 3 questions):
How and when did the trolls discover that you were all re-grouped at Chez Tremblay?
I understand Pierre Tremblay answered questions and contributed (at the beginning?). Can you point me in the direction of the threads he contributed to, answered questions, etc?
Actually if one of you original members would compose a short -- no make that a long story about the beginnings of CT, the founding members, etc, the evolution of the whole Brokeback Mountain phenomenon, IMDB-to-BetterMost, I would find it exceedingly interesting.
please please please! and thanks!
--- End quote ---
well CT, wasn't really an invite only club. it was kinda organic but secret. we did invite people, but it was freely open to any one who discovered us. as you know, many were regular posters on the main board. they have really great posts, and people often will check out their post histories. by following their post histories, many people discovered CT and joined the group that way. that's also how the troll discovered CT, unfortunately, but it took them many many month to figure it out, which gave us enough time to bond and actually work through many many ideas about the film. It was never meant to be exclusive. the group did send out invites from time to time to people who we were sure were interested in serious discussion of the film. I'm not sure who originally started CT. I believe Chris_slayer, victoria, and David "studduck" were three of them.
Pierre did answer questions for us. I believe his answers are in the archive. He really did give us a lot of insight into the movie making process.
starboardlight:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on May 30, 2006, 01:19:55 pm ---I want to go back to this, because it's a really cool observation. I think it's really sad that Ennis never even says "Brokeback" to anyone -- not even to Jack. (Jack's the one who says "Brokeback got us good" and "All we've got is Brokeback Mountain," and asks Aguirre if he's got "anything up on Brokeback," and at least tells Lureen that he wants his ashes spread there. But Ennis? He never even says its name.)
I wonder if Ennis mentions being "fishing buddies" precisely because that's one of the few things that men do together, but that he never did with Jack? (Hunting... elk... Jack. Camping... tent... Jack. Rodeo... Jack. Riding horses... mare with a low startle point... Jack.)
--- End quote ---
very very good point. he doesn't even revisit the mountain with Jack. it's a sacred place in his mind. They never go back there. If he can't do that with Jack, there's no way he bring it up with Alma.
Mikaela:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 30, 2006, 01:59:23 pm ---Thanks, Mikaela! With the addition of "I'd be proud to," my interpretation -- that his use of the word is an acknowlegement -- makes even more sense to me. It implies a contrasting "I was ashamed of our relationship before." And if he says it to Lureen, that underscores it also, because it's that line that tips off Lureen about their relationship.
--- End quote ---
It turns out the script (that I referred to in replying to you) has him saying he'd be "proud to", but in the film he actually says he'll be "happy to"! Either way I think what he says certainly is an acknowledgement - though using the word "happy" instead of "proud" seems oxymoronic and very unexpected in this context.... Perhaps it acknowledges how returning to Brokeback to fulfill Jack's last wish would set his own mind at rest a little, in addition to encompassing the "proud to" meaning.
At any rate - "Brokeback" and "happy" so close together in that one sentence of his carry a world of meaning and remembrance!
:'(
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on May 30, 2006, 03:42:30 pm ---It turns out the script (that I referred to in replying to you) has him saying he'd be "proud to", but in the film he actually says he'll be "happy to"! Either way I think what he says certainly is an acknowledgement - though using the word "happy" instead of "proud" seems oxymoronic and very unexpected in this context.... Perhaps it acknowledges how returning to Brokeback to fulfill Jack's last wish would set his own mind at rest a little, in addition to encompassing the "proud to" meaning.
At any rate - "Brokeback" and "happy" so close together in that one sentence of his carry a world of meaning and remembrance!
--- End quote ---
Wow, this is really an interesting point to bring up. I've always preferred the "proud to" version... I think for the reason that it does feel jarring to use the word "happy" in this scene. But, Mikaela, I think you're right. I think maybe Ennis's odd use of the word "happy" in this context does reveal how he really feels about the word Brokeback.
There's another minor change from book to film that I've always wondered about. It involves a very different context/ moment in the film. During the argument scene in the book when Jack is complaining about Ennis never committing to the idea of livig together he says "but you wouldn't do it..." In the film they change it to "but you didn't want it." This has always bothered me. I truly do think that Ennis wanted to live with Jack, but all of his fears, etc. held him back. Am I being too simplistic here? It seems important to the romance of the film to believe that on some level Ennis wished he could fulfill Jack's dream. Maybe he only gets this after Jack's death... but it really worries me that Jack would think that Ennis didn't want the dream of the cow and calf operation too. I don't sense Ennis's resistance at the level of "want".
:-\
ps. by the way, bump to a good thread!
:D ;)
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