The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: shakesthecoffeecan on May 24, 2010, 07:38:23 pm ---Yes, it could happen. Look at Iran.
--- End quote ---
This makes me think of a televised debate in Australia with Richard Dawkins (where a member of the audience argued that [paraphrased] "evil would reign"). Richard quite calmly indicated that there has never been a situation where an invasion/atrocity has occurred on the grounds of spreading atheism. Maybe this is a little trite though because although quite correct, it doesn't really address the fact that an absence of cause [in this case religious rightiousness] is a little difficult to articulate when trying to motivate your kinsmen to rape, pillage, and plunder.
So the fact that religion has been used as an excuse to justify many an evil act it doesn't, in and of itself, make religion responsible for the evil act. You could also argue that if religion and religious leaders hadn't become so hysterical about their version of morality then Richard Dawkins himself wouldn't exist, at least as a media identity and author.
serious crayons:
Hi, Chris! Nice to see you around these parts! :D
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on May 27, 2010, 11:16:25 am ---Hi, Chris! Nice to see you around these parts! :D
--- End quote ---
Hi there, it has been a while hasn't it? I guess the dredging up of one of my favourite old threads couldn't help but get me to post something, eh.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: louisev on May 24, 2010, 11:56:34 am ---Let's deal with these one after the other:
<Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?>
No, it isn't God's job to prevent evil: it is our job.
--- End quote ---
Says who? According to some religious dogma, god is supposed to be omnipotent. If someone makes this sort of claim about their god, this is a statement they can be called on.
--- Quote ---<Then he is not omnipotent.> We are God's body, and it is our responsibility to govern ourselves in the physical form. And through us collectively, we ARE omnipotent.
--- End quote ---
Again, few religions claim the faithful are omnipotent, because, of course, they know they're not.
--- Quote ---<Is He able, but not willing?> The Divinity is ever willing, but we must be able because WE have free will as we were created to act as WE will.
--- End quote ---
Uh uh uh. If he is willing, then why doesn't he do it? This sounds like an excuse. If WE are able to do something, if WE are omnipotent, if WE are responsible...why do we need a god?
--- Quote ---<Then whence cometh evil?> That is obvious. Through our willful actions that are destructive to others.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but who created us? And who created evil?
--- Quote ---<Is he neither able nor willing?> Neither. Non sequitur input.
--- End quote ---
Not at all. Quite relevant. God is claimed as creator, as omnipotent, as loving and caring by some religious beliefs...these are quite relevant questions that go right to the heart of why a god is worthy of worship, if - according to your post - we do everything for ourselves and to ourselves.
serious crayons:
I'm not sure you'd even have to get into human evil, and whose "job" it is to control it. You could simply ask, why would a loving, caring, omnipotent god allow tsunamis and earthquakes and hurricanes? Obviously those cause untold misery, probably at least as much as that caused by human evil, but they're "acts of God."
If there's an omnipotent god, and that God is also "loving and caring," then either God's definition of loving and caring, or God's ultimate loving and caring purposes, are so far beyond our understanding that there's hardly any point in trying to grasp God's intentions.
All humans share some basic moral assumptions, whether they follow them or not. But it's clear that our moral assumptions in no way match the way the world operates, even in its "natural" state, that is, without human intervention. Since God, if there is a god, is presumably in charge of nature, then one has to ask why God's morality seems so out of sync with ours.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version