The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
Why are the poor, poor?
Artiste:
Why should the poor get a fair share of the wealth in the USA and Canada, when they are forced to push illegal drugs and work like slaves ??
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: seriouscrayons on May 09, 2008, 04:46:22 pm ---Thanks, Jeff! You're right, and I was about to post the same thing. Broketrash disputed what I said ... by repeating what I said! :laugh:
How come you and I have to spend all our time nowadays explaining each other's posts -- not even just defending, but actually explaining -- to HerrKaiser and broketrash? ;D
--- End quote ---
As for Broketrash, I don't know, and as for HerrKaiser, who finds me incomprehensible and, I think, just called me a liar (but from his prose, it's difficult to tell ;D ), I just won't say.
--- Quote ---Why on earth would I want to "dodge the economic motivating factors in voting decisions"? Economic factors are unquestionably among the biggest motivators in voting decisions. With the exception, that is, of voting by affluent Democrats and middle- or lower-income Republicans -- two groups who for some reason vote against their own economic interests. ;D Apparently they're more motivated by their views on social issues such as abortion and gay marriage.
--- End quote ---
;D
--- Quote ---Oh, right. The literature of the past could not possibly have any relevance or interest in the present\.
--- End quote ---
Unless, of course, it's the Bible, being used by Conservatives to justify homophobia. ...
--- Quote ---And by my count, that's officially three and four times you guys have refused to acknowledge the question that Jeff and I have raised about how this policy of punishing parents for their deeds will affect their children. Guess concern for the well-being of kids is just more of that silly liberalthink, hunh?
--- End quote ---
That tells you something about the Conservative mentality, doesn't it? It's typical. It's inconvenient to the Conservative position to acknowledge that innocent children might be affected by the Conservative program for the mothers of those children, so Conservatives just ignore the inconvenient detail and pretend ;D that the inconvenient detail doesn't exist. Instead, they find some way to attack whoever points out the detail they don't want to deal with.
Artiste:
Bible or Koran or another crap book, poor merit to have decent jobs !
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: injest on May 09, 2008, 06:06:40 pm ---my interpretation of her INTENT was to show how attitudes are still the same. The attitudes that were being parodied THEN are still active today.
--- End quote ---
Definitely. Thanks Jess. Some of the important points of the Swift essay that Katherine posted and that we discussed a while back are both to highlight the harshness and cruelty of attitudes and "solutions" directed at the issue of poverty and to highlight how unrealistic certain of the harsh proposals can be. And, the fact that the general tone and general points (not the absolute, specific historical context of 17th century Ireland) can be applied so easily to certain situations even today is just so striking and illustrates how much of a dilemma the goal of alleviating poverty has been for centuries.
Anyway, more on why it's relevant to this thread... the general topic of "why are the poor, poor" seems to be a really productive heading under which we can have a wide-ranging discussion of the humanitarian issue of poverty. Historical context seems vital to understanding the scope of the issue. And, Swift's essay is one of the most famous and widely cited/read pieces of writing on the topic of poverty... again for centuries now.
louisev:
--- Quote from: Kerry on May 09, 2008, 01:27:22 am ---Why are the poor, poor? In a word, "Karma."
I am genuinely not trying to trivialize this important issue by responding as I have. It is what I sincerely believe.
I believe that it is only the karmically UNevolved who are given wealth, because they are "young" souls, unaccustomed to the rigours of life and its lessons. We are given wealth in our early incarnations in order to soften the hardships of life. It is only after we progress karmically through many incarnations that we gain the privilege of attaining the lessons provided by lives of poverty. It is only then that we have the strength and experience from progressively experiencing more and ever more challenging incarnations that we are able to cope with poverty.
It is my belief that the entity who is closest to Nirvana and experiencing his/her final incarnation on Earth prior to progressing to a state of everlasting Bliss is more likely to be the beggar on the street, NOT the millionaire in his mansion.
We in the West see wealth as a blessing. Karmically speaking, it is just the opposite.
Peace. :)
--- End quote ---
another way of viewing the karmic value of poverty is that those who are unfortunate in a worldly way (i.e. lacking material resources, or are handicapped or born ill) may have chosen such limitations in order to provide learning opportunities for others, not for themselves. In other words, a child born with with autism or mental retardation may have elected to provide lessons to their parents in patience and compassion, and those who are born in poverty and want are providing opportunities for others to gain experience in being selfless and charitable. If everyone were fortunate there would be no need for selflessness and charitability.
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