The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes

Why are the poor, poor?

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brokeplex:

--- Quote from: seriouscrayons on May 02, 2008, 11:08:04 am ---Good morning, broketrash, and thanks for such a thorough and carefully considered response!
Two problems with this that come to mind immediately: 1) I imagine lots and lots of kids would be mislabeled and put on the wrong track. Think of all the stories of great and famous people who were not high achievers in school. 2) Many technical and trade jobs are increasingly being automated or outsourced.

So you're contending that the Welfare roles are filled with underqualified former college students?? Hunh?? I'd guess that most poor people did not attend college, and that going to college, whatever one's academic skills, is one of the surest ways OUT of poverty.

I don't know about the program in Germany, but times have changed over the generations. The job skills that led to success a generation ago, or even a decade ago, are not necessarily in the same demand today.

And the "guaranteed job"? That sounds suspiciously like it would involve more government intervention.

I like this idea! And while we're at it, let's reintroduce shame as a social deterrent to mass murder, as well.

Actually, I've never understood why anybody would object to this idea. Potentially, it seems, Welfare could be the equivalent of Roosevelt's WPA.


--- End quote ---

on the two track educational system beginning in high school and extending thru the college years.

the two tracks would be predicated on testing and observation as to the fit of a student in pursuing an academic path or a technical path. This type of system has worked and still works well in several countries in Europe and in Japan.

There is nothing about the two track system which locks the student into that track forever. If a student on an academic track for example, develops more of an interest in a technical subject which requires more hands on training and less academic training, then he or she would be free to switch tracks. A bit like switching majors in college between subjects which are radically different. Started for a BA in History, but decided to get a CS degree later on.

Apprenticeships and guaranteed jobs for those students which graduated the technical side of the process makes a great deal of sense to private industry and has extensive backing among private employers. What employers want are qualified graduates who do not have to be taught remedial programs by the employers, and that is what is happening right now. Students emerging from our high schools and colleges should be ready for the workplace. right now they have essentially been baby sat, except for those who are academic achievers and are going on into degreed programs at universities.

those whom we have forgotten about in our educational system are the very people who are most at risk to becoming or remaining a part of the underclass. my idea is a part of early intervention to avoid that cycle of welfare that I have been complaining about.

just because a good idea came from FDR, doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea! ;D I know my grandpa is rolling in his grave, but lets face it gramps, Alf Landon would have made a sorry President.

serious crayons:

--- Quote from: broketrash on May 02, 2008, 04:11:47 pm ---that is good that poverty has been reduced by 7 % nationally in the following 45 years! good lord , we have spent TRILLIONS on these misguided programs!  what a waste of money that the tax payers could have kept for their own family's needs,  and the rate has only been reduced by 7% in 45 years after trillions!
--- End quote ---

Not quite that simple. First of all, the poverty rate was reduced 8% nationally in the following 10 years, not 45.

From Wikipedia:

In the decade following the 1964 introduction of the war on poverty, poverty rates in the U.S. dropped to their lowest level to date: 11.1% . They have remained between 11 and 15.2% ever since. Since 1973 poverty has remained well below the historical U.S. averages in the range of 20-25%

What economic and cultural contributions have been made by those millions of would-be poor people who are instead taxpaying productive citizens -- helping pay for those very programs!  ;D  -- is a more complex calculation than I am able to make. What I can say is that there are millions of people out there who probably do not consider the project a failure.



 :laugh: :laugh:

Here's something I just noticed: On an annual basis, the War on Poverty has cost about as much as the War in Iraq: about $100 billion a year. (The WoP has cost $5 trillion over 45 years; the WiI has cost $500 billion over 5 years).

Now, the Iraq War is hardly the gold standard for success or cost-effectiveness, so in that sense it's an unappealing comparison. On the other hand, the War on Poverty undoubtedly hasn't killed as many people, hasn't caused as many people to hate us, and so far seems to have made more people better off.

Let's hope we're not having this same discussion about the effectiveness of the Iraq War in 40 years!

Artiste:
Alberta did have many problems with no taxes, since it closed hospitals !!

Dire times then and now too !!

Artiste:
Slavery is coming back, unfortunately!!

Even China has slaves, children as such now sold to the rich on the auction block !

Does anyone but I know ?

Artiste:
The First Nations are used as slaves in the USA ?

In Canada, they are so... in more than one way !!

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