Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 18/08: The lines from the trailer
Artiste:
Merci to all of you as you pose good questions and replies, may I assert somehow... in turn.
Some men ONLY have sex, when they took alcohol, unfortunately ! According to my experiences, to what I have seen !
I now stay away from such persons, for many reasons which you can guess.
One reason is that I have found them not only bad in sex, but also very badly in thinking before and afterwards !
It seems to me, that clear thought is essential in living !
That being said, I wonder if Ennis and Jack would have sex WITHOUT booze, and the answer is YES, eventually (since as optom says alcohol precipitates).
Therefore, Ennis and Jack would have been, to me, likely lovers FOR LIFE much, much better - with and/or without being married to their ladies !!
Plus, if they would have gotten married to those ladies, they would have educated those females to accept them as either bis or gays !! May I dare say...
and au revoir,
hugs! My lover/buddy ( a gay man) was alcoholic when I (a gay man) discovered him, and he did not want me at first, as he sought only quick pleasures like Ennis and Jack, but when he saw that there was more which was non-alcohol pleasures, he even became to go to the soup-kitchen to help the poor, and brought food to feed the unfeed !! Without alcohol, he started to discover life was brilliant, joyful !! And he made a circle a gay friends too with mutual help for them and from them !! Of course, he also continued to help heterosexuals and others too !! He became to enrich society and culture !!
Mandy21:
Artiste, that's wonderful that you were able to help someone who was seeing through clouded eyes, see clearly. Not many drinking people can be influenced in such a way. Good for you, and for him! I've always found that the times in my life when I give up drinking completely, are most definitely the happiest. But it's always a hard struggle. Alcoholics are definitely self-destructive, and the temptation to go back to that admittedly unhappy place and self is always there. There's no way to explain it properly to someone who is not an alcoholic, someone who hasn't been in that place before. And I'm sure your "lover/buddy" struggles sometimes. As humans, we all have weaknesses; otherwise, we wouldn't be human. But I'm happy you were able to help someone see a bit more clearly.
optom3:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on June 01, 2008, 09:12:45 am ---Thanks, Bliss. I remember the scene where Jack came back to camp saying, "I spend 4 hours a day commuting", considering the two trips he had to make each day, for breakfast and supper, which would mean the journey back to where they "pasture the woolies" would be 1 hour, at least, when you were sober. Goodness knows if you'd even find your way, in a drunken condition. I'm sure Ennis knew that Jack knew that presumption. Don't even think about trying to find your way A) in complete darkness, with only the moon as your guide, and B) drunk as a skunk. Jack was always the less responsible one, when it came to taking care of those sheep, so I think Ennis knew he wouldn't get any grief from Jack if he got a little too drunk and decided to forego the trip back to them on that first evening.
But this makes me think about something else, and I hope I don't offend anybody with this. Most men who've been drinking too much can last a really, REALLY long time. And most virgins can last no time at all. Why is it, do you think, that the first time was over so quickly, considering Ennis was both drunk AND a virgin? Hmmmmm...... Thoughts?
--- End quote ---
I am so glad you brought up the staying power subject.It has niggled at me for ages.Maybe the drink would have slowed things,but the Virginity speeds it up.Also he had been attempting to sleep for a while,so maybe some of the effects of alcohol may have worn off.
Artiste:
Merci Sel !
You say:
Young, hormones at their peak, lying next to the man of your dream (or woman for that metter), alcohol or not, how could anyone resist not to make an attempt at making a pass?! The alcohol certainly helped in making a rather bold one but Jack, as opposed to Ennis, was a risk taker.
..........
Sel to reply to you and to others:
May I say yes that Jack was the risk taker as you said rightly Sel, and, therefore, he would have had Ennis as his lover much better without booze !!
Jack was already cruising Ennis, the first time he laid eyes in him, did you know ?
So, it was just a matter of time to sleep together !!
If man to man sex had not been seen as evil or sin in society before Ennis and Jack meet, they would have been in bed together much much sooner, right ??
Man to man sex is seen by Islam and other so-called religion and non-religious as evil or sin for what ? To dominate others ??
Au revoir,
hugs! There is peace and joy without evil in man to man sex, and that is reasonable too !! No need to punish yourself for being natural !! Why sacrifice yourself to evils of others ??
sel:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on May 31, 2008, 10:38:30 pm --- It's just my humble opinion that Ennis chose on his own that night to drink that much so that he would have an excuse to stay in the camp with Jack and see what might happen. Jack wasn't pouring it down his throat, that's for sure.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: BlissC on June 01, 2008, 08:32:56 am ---That's a good point. Though as Sel said, Jack was the risk taker, and made the first move, as I think I've mentioned before somewhere, from Jack's first move and Ennis's shock to Ennis deciding TS1 was a good idea so to speak, IIRC was less than around 10 seconds, which would suggest that Ennis had indeed considered the possibility of this already.
--- End quote ---
Help! Don't know what IIRC stands for. :-\
I agree, IMO Ennis had certainly been fantasizing a lot about having sex with Jack, as considering he was a vergin he was very fast in saying yes to Jack and on deciding what to do.
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