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The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!

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Shakesthecoffecan:
Since spoilers are allowed, I really liked the moral at the end of the movie, where by Batman had to be the fall guy so that the Joker could not tarnish the image of the DA, dashing peoples hopes. In a way it means the joker was suscessful in bringing down Batman (if but a peg) but it was the lesser of two evils. IMO

Marge_Innavera:

--- Quote from: shakestheground on August 02, 2008, 12:02:11 pm ---Since spoilers are allowed, I really liked the moral at the end of the movie, where by Batman had to be the fall guy so that the Joker could not tarnish the image of the DA, dashing peoples hopes. In a way it means the joker was suscessful in bringing down Batman (if but a peg) but it was the lesser of two evils. IMO

--- End quote ---

I'm still going around and around with the moral ambiguities in this movie and the curious sympathy that the Joker inspires. Here's my take on it:

Everyone has a "shadow" side, and the urge to destroy, to tear down, to generate chaos and anarchy, is part of that. And that shadow side is essential.  After all, if there was no randomness in the universe, it isn't likely that any kind of free choice would exist and without any tendency toward tearing-down there could be no building-up. Nothing new could ever happen. (hope this is clear, I'm still trying to get it "jelled")

However, a challenge that all of us have is to keep our shadow side balanced with the side that wants to integrate, organize, build up and solve problems. People like the Joker live and act totally in terms of their shadow side; they don't seem to have any concept of balancing it with either a desire to do any positive creative work or to sustain human community.  And they're rare -- personally I've met one, maybe two in my lifetime and what they both had in common was that they were dazzlingly charming but had a certain coldness and an imaginary odor of brimstone about them.

Maybe one reason many of us feel a certain sadness for the Joker, other than his being Heath's last role, is a sense of the possibilities that will never be realized?  What might this guy have accomplished if he wasn't such a total sociopath?

Brown Eyes:

--- Quote from: shakestheground on August 02, 2008, 12:02:11 pm ---Since spoilers are allowed, I really liked the moral at the end of the movie, where by Batman had to be the fall guy so that the Joker could not tarnish the image of the DA, dashing peoples hopes. In a way it means the joker was suscessful in bringing down Batman (if but a peg) but it was the lesser of two evils. IMO

--- End quote ---

As far as I understand about Batman, he often is involved in ambiguous decision making.  I guess it's sort of a good thing that he wants to protect Harvey Dent's reputation as far as the general public goes... but at the same time, he's therefore consciously lying to the public or keeping the public from knowing the truth, which to me really isn't such a good thing.  So, Harvey Dent wasn't superhuman or the hero everyone was looking for.  To me, it would seem more important to have the public understand what really went on.

Also, the Joker definitely brought Batman down a peg or two... both with the Harvey Dent situation and the fact that Batman really did essentially allow the Joker to kill all those people systematiclly while he was trying to get Batman to reveal himself.  At least Batman didn't act to stop those killings. 

Ellemeno:
Cartoonist Who Created The Joker Discusses 'The Dark Knight'

By Dave Astor

Published: July 24, 2008 1:24 PM ET
NEW YORK

The actor who plays the Joker in a blockbuster 2008 movie is gone. The cartoonist who created the Joker in 1939 is still around.

He's Jerry Robinson, and he thinks the late Heath Ledger's acting turn in "The Dark Knight" is "a tour de force."

"A brilliant performance," said Robinson, 86, when E&P reached him by phone at the currently running Comic-Con in San Diego. "Very nuanced. The Joker is psychotic, but you believe in Heath's portrayal."

How does Ledger's portrayal of the supervillain compare with Jack Nicholson's hammy turn in the 1989 "Batman" film? "They're really different," replied Robinson, who has also had a long career in newspaper cartooning and syndication. "Nicholson made him kind of a mad terrorist. It wasn't exactly the most interesting view of him. It was more of a satirical, TV take on the Joker -- though it was a great performance."

Robinson said the way "The Dark Knight" and Ledger portray the Joker is closer to the way the character was conceived nearly 70 years ago. Back then, Robinson was a teenage Columbia University journalism student working on comic books with "Batman" co-creators Bob Kane and Bill Finger. (The name of Batman sidekick Robin was inspired by Robin Hood, not Jerry's last name.)

For "The Dark Knight," Robinson served as "creative consultant." He was on the set of the movie last fall in London, after filming moved from Chicago.

Robinson recalled that the scene in which the Joker threw the Rachel Dawes character (played by Maggie Gyllenhaal) out a window was first shot in Chicago and then finished in London -- where Batman (played by Christian Bale) saves Rachel before she hits the ground. Robinson joked that being thrown out of a window in America and landing in another continent is quite a feat.

The cartoonist also said the movie makeup of Aaron Eckhart (Harvey Dent/Two-Face) was digital, not actually applied to his face. "I spent a lot of time on the set with the makeup artist, and she didn't mention him," recalled Robinson. "Now I know why!"

Bale, recalled Robinson, "was an interesting guy" to talk with on the London set. "Very literate and articulate," said the cartoonist. (Bale has since landed in some hot water with this week's report of his arrest for allegedly assaulting his mother and sister; the actor denies the charges.)

Robinson didn't meet Ledger in London; the actor had finished his Joker scenes and flown back to the U.S. at that point. Ledger died this January in New York City of an apparent drug overdose.

"It's such a tragedy," said Robinson, who added that there had been plans for he and Ledger to get together in New York.

The cartoonist did see various "Dark Knight" actors at last week's New York premiere of the movie. They included Bale again, Gary Oldman (who played Lt. James Gordon in the film), and Michael Caine (Alfred Pennyworth). Robinson said Caine was so good in the role of the butler to Bruce Wayne -- aka Batman -- that he'd like to see the character focused on in another movie.

Robinson also ran into Danny DeVito, who played the Penguin earlier in the "Batman" movie series. The Penguin was a character Robinson also drew during his comic book days.

What did Robinson think of "The Dark Knight" in general? The cartoonist replied that he was very impressed with it, though he didn't find the film perfect. For one thing, said Robinson, it could've been tightened up in a way that would've made it about 15 minutes shorter.

And did Robinson expect the movie to pull in a record $158.4 million during its first weekend? "I knew it would be big, but didn't think it would be THAT big," commented the cartoonist, who said he's contractually not allowed to comment on how much he might or might not make with the movie. Like most cartoonists who worked decades ago, Robinson didn't have ownership rights to characters he created.

Robinson will be part of a Friday panel on "Batman" at the San Diego Comic-Con. This afternoon, he's also on a "Golden Age of Comics" panel, and Sunday he'll speak on yet another panel focusing on famed cartoonist Jack Kirby.

In addition, Robinson will present the Bill Finger Awards at the San Diego event, and do daily signing sessions at the DC Comics booth.

Speaking of DC Comics, Robinson is authoring an original graphic novel for that company starring the Joker. "It will be the first time in 60-some years I've personally created something with the Joker," he told E&P.

Robinson is also updating his 1970s history of newspaper comics for Dark Horse (possible release in fall 2009), and a biography of Robinson is being written for the Abrams publishing company (also for possible release sometime in 2009).

The cartoonist's newspaper connections are many. He's founder and president of the Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate/CartoonArts International -- now marketed by the New York Times Syndicate. He also did the syndicated "Life with Robinson" social/political satire feature, as well as the syndicated "still life" and "Flubs & Fluffs" offerings.

In addition, Robinson served as president of both the Association of American Editorial Cartoonists and the National Cartoonists Society, has authored many other books besides his comics history, and has curated many cartoon exhibits.

Before all that, how did Robinson come up with the Joker? He told E&P back in 1989: "I wanted to create a master criminal; a protaganist worthy of Batman. In my reading of literature, every great hero had his opposite -- David and Goliath, Sherlock Holmes and Moriarity.

"I had written a lot of humor at Columbia, and I loved stories with satire and a twist. So I thought it would be interesting to have a villain with a sense of humor. It would give him some contradiction, some depth; make him unusual."

Robinson then thought of the Joker name, and realized he could use the picture of a joker on a playing card as a model for the character's look. The cartoonist remembers "searching frantically that night for a deck of cards."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003831559

Ellemeno:
Note - after reading this article, I looked up when Sid Vicious died.  2 months 2 days before Heath was born.

Heath Ledger's Joker inspired by Sid Vicious


Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker in the latest Batman film was inspired by Sid Vicious, according to his co-star Christian Bale.
 
By Laura Clout
Last Updated: 9:23AM BST 29 Jul 2008

Chistian Bale said: He [Ledger] modelled the part on Sid Vicious which made this punk-like character. I think it is a classic portrayal of a great villain.  Bale, who plays the protagonist in the hit movie, said Ledger, who died in January of an accidental drugs overdose, had watched video clips of the late Sex Pistols guitar player while researching the role.
The 34-year-old said: "Heath's created an anarchic Joker unlike any ever seen before.
"He modelled the part on Sid Vicious which made this punk-like character. I think it is a classic portrayal of a great villain."
The punk rocker, whose real name was John Simon Ritchie, died in New York 1979, also from a drugs overdose.
The troubled musician - renowned for his violent behaviour - was facing trial over the murder of his former girlfriend Nancy Spungen at the time of his death.
Ledger is being tipped to win an Oscar for his role in The Dark Knight.
Bale added: "Heath immersed himself in the role. I would love to see him get an award."
Before his death, Ledger said he also drew inspiration from A Clockwork Orange for the role.
"It's the most fun I've had with a character and probably will ever have…" he said.
The actor added: "It was an exhausting process. At the end of the day I couldn't move. I couldn't talk. I was absolutely wrecked."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2468004/Heath-Ledger's-Joker-inspired-by-Sid-Vicious.html

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