Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
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Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: brokeplex on July 01, 2008, 01:22:08 pm ---just one of those interpretive disagreements that we all have from time to time about the film and the ss. 8)
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Yep, I think the different points of view are what keep all these Brokeback discussions so interesting and lively.
8)
And, BBM is complex and ambiguous enough to allow room for lots of different interpretations. I'm certainly aware that there are lots of folks who believe that Jack was really gearing up to leave Ennis and there are compelling arguments for that idea for sure, but I'm still in the camp of folks who see Jack as simply too attached to Ennis to really do that. I think he really doesn't know how to leave Ennis... even if he wanted to.
--- Quote from: Sandy on July 02, 2008, 03:44:01 am ---I think it would have been jokes around the ranch hands too, but I wonder what his reaction would be. As I’ve said, I think he was in denial and I wonder if he simply sat there knowing he “ain’t queer” or if there was a part of him, deep rooted that thought, “ they’re talking about me [or Jack]”.
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It's hard to know how Ennis would react, especially in a situation where he would be face to face with the people making the homophobic jokes and they would be folks he would have to see and interact with frequently at work. The only somewhat analogous situation that we may see in the film is when he's running around packing for one of his and Jack's fishing trips, there are two DJs on a radio making what sounds to be a homophobic joke. In that case, Ennis barely seems to even notice it... but he is preoccupied with packing. It's a detail in the film that's easy to miss because it's hard to hear that radio very clearly.
--- Quote ---About the scene at the river, definitely there’s a step forward there. By asking Jack if he thought others knew, he was acknowledging that fact that there was something to know! But his question about whether or not Jack’s relationship with Lureen was ‘normal’ shows he still thought what they had was not normal.
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I see what you mean about how you hear the "normal" question. But, I actually hear that question slightly differently. I always hear that question as being about whether Lureen and Jack have much of a sex life at all... and more specifically whether they have hetero sex in "conventional" ways... unlike how things went with Alma. Ennis seems sort of shy when he's asking that question, so I've always felt that he may be coyly asking about actual sexual practices.
And, yes about the end of the lake arguement when Ennis collapses in Jack's arms... I think it's very significant that he says "I can't stand this anymore"... which is the inverse of Ennis's motto "if you can't fix it you've got to stand it". One wonders that about whether within that statement it's implied that if you can't stand something you must fix it. I hope and wonder whether this would have been enough of a breakthrough moment for Ennis to have nudged him to make improvements in his relationship with Jack had Jack lived. We know Ennis is the one who sent the last postcard. So, he's still hoping to connect with Jack. Maybe one element of the BBM tragedy is that Jack dies just as Ennis reaches a point where he may be willing to do more for their relationship.
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: Sandy on July 02, 2008, 03:44:01 am ---
but if Ennis had changed his mind, I honestly believe that Jack would have jumped for joy and Randall would have been forgotten about.
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that is the heart of the matter. I doubt that Ennis ever would have changed his mind while Jack was alive. Ennis was #1 for Jack, no doubt. Ennis also was a dead end for Jack, and Jack was ready to settle down with #2. A half full glass is better than an empty glass, and Ennis's glass was empty for Jack.
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: atz75 on July 02, 2008, 09:24:16 am ---
I think he really doesn't know how to leave Ennis... even if he wanted to.
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"I wish I knew how to quit you." I think that after 20 years, Jack was figuring out that the clock on his life was running, he was getting no younger, and he still wanted something that perhaps was still at least partially inchoate for him, but he still wanted it - a real relationship with someone he loved. Randall is in the film to show that Jack is looking for alternatives, Randall is not just cheap anonymous sex for Jack, he is a real alternative to Ennis.
I know for a fact that you never forget or entirely leave behind your first true romantic love. Ennis was Jack's first experience with romantic love. I understand how hard it was for Jack to leave Ennis behind, I had that experience with Chris. But, I see justification for hope that had Jack lived he could have found happiness with Randall.
But, that couldn't complete the cycle of the tragedy of Ennis's and Jack's life, so we have the AP's brilliant, effective, and heartbreaking ending instead.
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