Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Ellemeno on June 14, 2006, 04:25:02 pm ---I just watched the "I love you" scene about 10 times, and definitely see the mouth twitch, twitch, twitch that could be it. I couldn't hear it though. I will watch it again in a a quieter place.
--- End quote ---
As a big proponent of "I love you," I'll admit that the three twitches are nearly all there is to go on. With my volume at 63 (highest it will go) and my face inches from the screen, I can just make out three audible murmurings muffled by shirt cloth and almost drowned out by music. Definitely one-syllable words, though admittedly they could be just about any three words in any language. But why else would his mouth twitch exactly three times, and what else would he mutter under the circumstances? "So this is where my damn shirt went" is too many syllables.
The immediate cutoff a split second later strikes me as another clue.
Unless someone has better audio/visual equipment than mine, this may always require a leap of faith. But having decided for myself that it's "I love you," I'm like you are, Clarissa, with the "fuck me" -- I can't see it any other way.
wolf:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on June 14, 2006, 05:02:57 pm ---"So this is where my damn shirt went"
/quote]
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
now you've got me thinking up three word alternatives.
Jack Fucking Twist?
This Shirt Stinks?
Ennis is Gay?
seriously, I agree regarding the immediate cut-off. it's highly suggestive of An Important Moment. which would, of course, be Ennis' 20 year wait to say the magic words.
JakeTwist, no salt then ;).
W
--- End quote ---
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Ellemeno on June 14, 2006, 04:25:02 pm ---The "fuck me, fuck me" I absolutely heard, clear as a bell. It goes like this: Ennis spits in his hand, groans as he enters Jack, Jack groans and then says, "fuck me, fuck me." I have watched this scene a time or two hundred, and never heard it til now, but now I can't NOT hear it. I still can't see the handholding/reach around/cylinder, my DVD is way too dark.
--- End quote ---
Heya,
Well, hmmm, once you have a chance to see a brighter DVD I'm sure you'll see the "hand holding" clear as a bell too... especially on a full screen edition.
I KNOW! I hear the "fuck me, fuck me" these days too. I wish I didn't hear them though... I much prefer the idea that this all happened in silence (other than Ennis's early "what are you doing"). I think it's interesting because you can still make those lines sound like groans if you really concentrate and want it to be that way.
::) :-\
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Ellemeno on June 14, 2006, 04:25:02 pm ---I still can't see the handholding/reach around/cylinder, my DVD is way too dark.
Why do we care so much? Who are we?
--- End quote ---
Clarissa, in answer to your first comment, if all else fails and you are intent on seeing the handholding, try "4 Nights in 20 Years." That's where I first saw it (in the days when I was getting by with YouTube in lieu of a DVD). If you've got a letterbox DVD, it may be impossible.
In answer to your second question, ??? The whole thing is very mysterious, isn't it?
In answer to your third, ??? also. After coffee with Celeste this morning, I'm still wondering, because it sounded like she felt sort of the same. Why are we like this?
welliwont:
--- Quote from: Ellemeno on June 14, 2006, 04:25:02 pm ---
I still can't see the handholding/reach around/cylinder, my DVD is way too dark.
--- End quote ---
Hi Clarissa, I can't stand it any more, can you please tell me what you mean by writing "cylinder"? I know about the handholding, because I have the Fullscreen DVD and it is easier to see it than in the Widescreen DVD (which I also have, or course, ;) being the full-fledged self-respecting gyllenhaalic brokie that I am :D)
so what is cyiinder????
--- Quote from: Ellemeno on June 14, 2006, 04:25:02 pm ---I just spent an hour and fifteen minutes on this one thread - and the important videographic research. :) Why do we care so much? Who are we?
--- End quote ---
I had begun a reply to these two questions, but I did not finish it and my comp ate it all up, so now I am going to answer your questions with a related post (sort of) instead.
Here is a post from TOB, I find it interesting how diametrically opposed this person's impression of BBM is to mine, and to the rest of the brokies(?)
--- Quote --- What is the point of this film...?
by - james_norman1981 (Thu Jun 1 2006 09:26:07 )
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Please read this piece before commenting on it as the above, albeit fairly inflammatory, subject heading is a genuine question.
I watched BBM for the first time last night and thought it was very good: amazing cinematography, two excellent leads (Heath Ledger particularly impressive) and lots of great things... but what exactly is the point of this film?
Is it trying to make us aware that homosexuality is not a sin? In this day and age it seems to be on an equal with heterosexuality. Is it just a love story between two people? If so it's awfully depressing, suggesting that the two leads can never change themselves quite enough to accomodate their relationship and that the places they live will never change during their lifetime to allow their love. Is it just meant to be a story that wasn't supposed to have any deep and meaningful meaning? In that case it's not really worth watching in my opinion...
My main problem with this film, other than the length which I thought was a bit self indulgent, is that it seems to be the opposite of an oil painting... minute examination of the individual components, such as the scenes, the music, the cinematography, the characterization and the acting, reveals brilliant thing after brilliant thing. However, if you take a step back and look at the film as a whole, it doesn't seem to add up to much in my opinion. It's as if Ang Lee and his crew created a very abstract sculpture out of the most incredibly beautiful and expensive building blocks they could find. You find yourself being blinded by those blocks but, when asked about the sculpture itself, you just get a vague feeling that there was some obvious thing about it you didn't understand but you don't want to say that and appear ignorant and/or homophobic... so you just focus on how great the building blocks were.
Anyhow, this is just my opinion and I'd love to hear whether anyone else had the same feeling or some explanations as to the message this film was trying to suggest which I somehow missed. I liked BBM a fair bit, particularly the various aspects I've already discribed, I just can't help feeling there's something I missed to make the whole seem more complete. Am I just over analysing this movie, have I missed something or does anyone else have the same problem?[/email]
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and his follow-up post:
--- Quote ---Thanks for your replies
by - james_norman1981 (Fri Jun 2 2006 04:43:11 )
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Dear all,
Thank you for replying to my query levelly and intelligently. From your comments I believe that there was no big message I failed to see in BBM and that, to my mind, it is therefore not quite as great a film as I'd been led to expect.
I also had a number of replies to some of the questions posed by rayminhu. Unfortunately, a rather epic comment on the nature of societal peer pressure on the viewing public for such films as BBM, Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan has been deleted thanks to a power cut, so you've been spared my self indulgence!
Therefore, much quicker than before (as I have to get back to work), I'll try and offer some replies.
"Is it trying to make us aware that homosexuality is not a sin? In this day and age it seems to be on an equal with heterosexuality."
This comment was not intended to hold homsexuality up as a sin but to ask what was the point of a film telling us about the extremely puritanical attitude visited on homosexuals in the 1960's when, in the 2000's our attitude is one of tolerance in the majority? I had far more eloquent and intelligent arguments than that but, sadly, I haven't really got time to try and think them up again. My own view is that homosexuality should not only be tolerated by the majority it should be unacceptable to be intolerant towards it (again, not very eloquent or farsighted but time waits for no man).
"I don't understand how the length can be "self indulgent." Please elaborate."
Film pacing is vital to any movie. Longer than average films must give their audience some sort of payoff, whether emotional, visual or what have you. BBM didn't do this for me (damn power cuts, I wish I could try and argue this properly!).
"A film can be well made in every respect and not appeal to you. A lot of well-made films are quite boring, in my opinion."
"Just don't feel like you have to like the movie merely because it's well made, or that its individual parts come together harmoniously, or that everyone else is praising it. Likewise, don't feel like you have to find flaws in the film merely because it didn't register with you as it apparently did with a lot of others."
I'll take these two points together (and at warp speed). BBM, Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan are all films where the tide of public and critical opinion in favour of these movies meant that anyone who said they didn't like them was labelled homophobic, anti-semetic [spelling?], unpatriotic or what have you. This means that, when you see the film, you're automatically looking to like it for fear that your liberal peers will castigate you if you say otherwise... However, I wasn't quite prepared to accept this in BBM's case (as I am older and more comfortable in my opinions and attitudes, in so much as they're not fascist, compared to when the other two first came out), hence my question 'What is the point of this film...?'
Anyhow, must go now. I know my points are rather scattergorical and (perhaps) irrelevent, however, if any of you read this and reply, I'd be delighted to try and go through them in more detail (and more intelligence) at a later date when I have time!
Byefornow.
PS None of the comments posted on this thread have labelled me at all homophobic or what have you and are all very level headed and intelligent. However, there is certainly a sense of 'us and them' with regards to liking this film: many of the antiBBM crowd are horendously homophobic and even fascist while some of the pro crowd regard the film as the greatest work ever etc. etc. My comments (particularly this one) are merely to ask why has itbecome so hard to find a middle way?
Thanks for reading.
--- End quote ---
PS: Here is a link to the complete thread at IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/nest/44718471
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