Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
dly64:
--- Quote from: JakeTwist on June 23, 2006, 10:12:18 am ---I guess you are fairly new here, so I will have to be the one to tell you that the "I'm sorry / s'awright" debate has been outlawed on the BetterMost board, could get you killed if you should come to discuss it here.
--- End quote ---
I am guessing that this has been hotly debated???? At least I am glad JCinNYC2006 agrees with me. Hmmmm .... any other taboo topics I should be aware of?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: dly64 on June 23, 2006, 09:32:31 am ---I vehemantly disagree with you on both points. The first one ... I am convinced Ennis does not say "I love you" when he is sniffing the shirts. After reading a quote from Diana Ossana, I believe I am right on that point:
When told of his daughter's impending wedding, Ennis (Heath Ledger) initially mentions having to work on her big day, but quickly reconsiders. "I reckon they can find themselves a new cowboy," he says.
"It is the first time in Ennis' life that he shifts his mind," Ossana points out. "It's also the only time he mentions love."
As for the "It's alright".... "I'm sorry" exchange. I feel strongly that does occur. Firstly, if you look at the subtitles, it says it. Sedcondly, you can definately see Ennis' lips move (although barely. Don't forget he hardly opens his mouth to say anything. Even the, "Jack, I swear ..." is hard to decipher). Lastly, if you turn up the volume, you can hear it.
Anyone else feel this same way?
--- End quote ---
I go back and forth on the sorry/s'alright myself, so I won't take a stand here. But I will say that the people who write the subtitles are in the same position we are -- they just have to listen and watch and try to figure it out for themselves. People here who have compared different subtitled versions say the subtitles vary from one to the next.
As for Diana's comment on the "I love you" issue, sorry, but I don't think she's an infallible authority, either. Of course it's true that the first time in the script that Ennis mentions love is when he's talking to Alma Jr. But I'm assuming she wasn't standing there in the closet on the day they filmed the shirts scene. If he did said it, it would have been a decision made by Ang and/or Heath, outside of the directions of the screenplay, perhaps at the last minute, perhaps not even done in all of the takes ... I mean, I have no idea what the circumstances might have been, but I'm assuming it could have been done without consulting Diana, possibly without her even hearing about it or noticing it afterward. It's not meant to call attention to itself, that's for sure. If there at all, it's not supposed to be a major plot turning point -- you would hardly even call it him "mentioning" love. If there, it's supposed to be, well, nearly indiscernible.
Oh, while I was writing this, your latest post came in, dly. JakeTwist is kidding, it's not taboo. But what she's saying is that it's been discussed a million times, never with any satisfactory resolution or concensus. Rest assured that JCinNYC2006 is far from the only person who agrees with you.
But there are no taboo topics here -- well, except those that attack or hurt somebody or involve posting photos containing full frontal nudity. Otherwise, bring up anything you want!
welliwont:
--- Quote from: dly64 on June 23, 2006, 10:44:46 am ---I am guessing that this has been hotly debated???? At least I am glad JCinNYC2006 agrees with me. Hmmmm .... any other taboo topics I should be aware of?
--- End quote ---
I hope you got the part where I was pulling your leg!! ;D :laugh:
Hotly debated is an understatement! This has been the most contentious topic, IMO. There have been more posts on this enigma than.... welll I don't even know what to compare it to. ::) there was also a poll -- I have seached for 20 mins cannot locate it yet. but I will!
Welcome to BetterMost dly64! It's a great place! :) :)
PS to Juan:
--- Quote from: JCinNYC2006 on June 23, 2006, 10:18:45 am ---
but seeing the movie in San Francisco rang a bell. The sound quality was really incredible...little details like the salt being shaken (thanks Ruby) and stuff like that. So when that second tent scene came up, it sounded very clearly like the exchange went: E-"I'm sorry." J-"It's alright, it's alright." Some of the other folks who came heard it the same way (right Nipith? :D I haven't 'gone to the video' yet to double check but I probably will at some point....
Juan
--- End quote ---
That is very interesting, I myself am waiting for it to come back to a cinema near me at which time I will be going to see it at least one more time, I look forward to hearing this passage more clearly, as you did! I sure hope I can hear it better. I have glued my ear to the speakers when viewing the DVD, and well, I don't even want to get into the fray on this one, I believe what I believe, unless I hear / see it differently at a big-screen viewing.
BTW does anyone know where the big long thread with the debate and the poll went to? It used to be at BM, it thought it was under "Chez Tremblay" I thought it had FNIT in the title, but I can't find it for dly64.
Anyone?
dly64:
--- Quote from: JakeTwist on June 23, 2006, 01:48:47 pm ---I hope you got the part where I was pulling your leg!! ;D :laugh:
Hotly debated is an understatement! This has been the most contentious topic, IMO. There have been more posts on this enigma than.... welll I don't even know what to compare it to. ::) there was also a poll -- I have seached for 20 mins cannot locate it yet. but I will!
--- End quote ---
Oh, I absolutely knew you were joking. When you see my posts, you will probably realize that I have a very sarcastic sense of humor. :laugh: You will also see that I have a bleeding heart. What an odd combination, eh? ::)
Mikaela:
--- Quote ---people who write the subtitles are in the same position we are -- they just have to listen and watch and try to figure it out for themselves.
--- End quote ---
I have always figured they'd be getting an "official text" from the distributor to go with the subtitling preparation and to help them in the listening process - at least as far as subtitling in other languages go. Doesn't mean the official text can't have errors in the first place, of course..... But I noted that "Don Wroe" was spelled correctly in the subtitling over here - and there's absolutely no way that would have happened if the translator didn't have the correct name in writing! (Though if he was extremely diligent he could have gotten it from the original short story).
Perhaps the official text is the one being used for original English subtitling, and that one is based on the spoken dialogue as interpreted by a subtitler, and everything else flows from that. So if there's an error in that one, it gets magnified. Then again, the English subtitles of the SNIT doesn't only have the "I'm sorry" but adds " C'mon, lie back down" or some such - which has *not* been picked up in the translations.
Perhaps it's just that they all actually give less attention to all the subtitilng and translating correctness and completeness than we do? :o ;)
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