Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Why are we like this?
fontaine:
Nor do Heath and Ennis sound alike! I was shocked when I watched the extras on the DVD to see how very different they are! It helped convince me how fine an actor Heath Ledger really is to have been able to make that kind and level of transformation. It may even support my theory that sexuality exists on a continuum. We may have certain "default" settings but a motivation like acting and portraying a different character may help an actor actually experience things he/she wouldn't while on their default setting.
Take the example of men (or women) in prison. Many straight ones participate in homosexual acts. You mean to tell me that ALL of these acts are simply physical w/ absolutely no emotional element? I find that hard to believe knowing how human beings function. It may be true for emotionally-stunted prisoners such as sociopaths but those can't feel much if any emotion for heterosexual partners, either.
I suspect that most homophobia is more the expression of the desire to return to a simpler, if mythical past where things were more black and white. I don't expect, however, that that resembles reality very much.
If you're interested in the nature/nurture, mind/body question, one of my instructors sent me a book (she's a sweetie and has done this several times) entitled "Phantoms in the Brain: Probing the Mysteries of the Human Mind" by Dr. V.S. Ramachandran, a noted neuroscientist. In it he talks a lot about "phantom limbs" and then gets into the mind/body relationship.To give you a preview of this guy's sense of humor, take the following paragraph that talks about quantitative vs. qualitative research.
"A tension exists in neurology between those who believe that the most valuable lessons about the brain can be learned from statistical analyses involving large numbers of patiens and those who believe that doing the right kind of experiements on the right patients--even a single patient--can yeild much more useful information. This is really a silly debate since its resolution is obvious: It's a good idea to begin with experiements on single cases and then to confirm the findings through studies of additional patients. By way of analogy, imagine that I cart a pig into your living room and tel you that it can talk. You might say, "Oh, really? Show me." I then wave my wand and the pig starts talking. You might respond, "My God! That's amazing!" You are not likely to say, "Ah, but that's just one pig. Show me a few more and then I might believe you." Yet this is precisely the attitude of many people in my field.
That paragraph cracked me up!
Uh, oh, I just read some more in the book that suggests a neurological basis of homophobia! Want to hear it?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: fontaine on June 24, 2006, 04:17:37 pm ---Uh, oh, I just read some more in the book that suggests a neurological basis of homophobia! Want to hear it?
--- End quote ---
Um ... sure, I guess so!
--- Quote ---Nor do Heath and Ennis sound alike! I was shocked when I watched the extras on the DVD to see how very different they are! It helped convince me how fine an actor Heath Ledger really is to have been able to make that kind and level of transformation.
--- End quote ---
Yes, he is an amazing actor, but get this -- I can't bring myself to watch the DVD extras for that very reason. Too confusing. For me, seeing Heath or the other actors in "real life" triggers disturbing thoughts that maybe Ennis and Jack aren't, well, real people.
--- Quote ---I suspect that most homophobia is more the expression of the desire to return to a simpler, if mythical past where things were more black and white. I don't expect, however, that that resembles reality very much.
--- End quote ---
Good point. I think a lot of racism is the same way. It's a nostalgic look back to the '50s, when everybody was so repressed and/or oppressed that white middle-class straight people could almost forget that anybody else existed.
YaadPyar:
I don't know why it took me so long to see this thread... But it's the essential question - how has our experience of this movie connected us into a community that is so deeply feeling and supportive and in need of support.
And I continue to not have an answer. I like the idea that we're in need of love, but as was stated, who isn't in need of that. I have read so many excellent answers and I would say yes and right and true to all of them, but they are not complete in their answers for me. Not that I know the complete answer.
We are as different as we are similar. For every way in which we are alike, you can see how we are not, and find 10,000 others just like us who were not deeply touched by this movie anyway.
So - no answers here, but enjoying reaching deeper still into the question, looking for answers at this point much more about myself and really much less about BBM.
dly64:
--- Quote from: fontaine on June 24, 2006, 04:17:37 pm ---Take the example of men (or women) in prison. Many straight ones participate in homosexual acts. You mean to tell me that ALL of these acts are simply physical w/ absolutely no emotional element? I find that hard to believe knowing how human beings function. It may be true for emotionally-stunted prisoners such as sociopaths but those can't feel much if any emotion for heterosexual partners, either.
I suspect that most homophobia is more the expression of the desire to return to a simpler, if mythical past where things were more black and white. I don't expect, however, that that resembles reality very much.
--- End quote ---
It is interesting that you bring up straight men and women participating in homosexual acts in prison. IMO, I doubt that there is any emotional attachment. Prison is an environment where it is the survival of the fittest. I guess I see it more as an issue of power and control than one of emotional or physical fulfillment.
I see homophobia as a fear of examining one's own life. This does not mean the individual is homosexual (although s/he might be). It is just that any prejudice has more to do with a person's own insecurity. For instance, a person who spouts off Bible verses about the damnation of homosexuals may be trying to convince him/ herself that homosexuality is wrong. I find that those who protest too loudly have something they are trying to hide. For example, the loudest critics of President Clinton's indiscretions were having their own affairs. Another example: My dad grew up Amish and there was a guy who kept complaining to my grandpa that my aunt's (dad's sisters') skirts were too short. Coming to find out, he was molesting his own daughters. I could go on and on.
As for the nature/ nuture debate about homosexuality .... that could go on for decades. And, since we are humans, it is hard to separate what is inborn and what is environmental. It still hasn't been determined how one's personality is developed. I don't expect we will have any easy answers ... at least not in my lifetime!
fontaine:
"I find that those who protest too loudly have something they are trying to hide. For example, the loudest critics of President Clinton's indiscretions were having their own affairs. Another example: My dad grew up Amish and there was a guy who kept complaining to my grandpa that my aunt's (dad's sisters') skirts were too short. Coming to find out, he was molesting his own daughters. I could go on and on."
Aren't those simply examples of hypocracy? Are you saying that when people loudly thump their causes its largely because they're hypocrites? I don't know but it certainly sounds very plausible. If these people focus on what others do and don't say and do, then they avoid having to look at themselves. Was that your point, dly64?
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