Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

Got What They Deserved?

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ednbarby:

--- Quote from: dly64 on June 26, 2006, 08:45:27 am ---I still think that Ennis could not admit to himself that he loved Jack. He did love Jack, but there is a difference between embracing that love and being in denial. Ennis did not see himself as homosexual. He blames Jack for that. He cannot admit that he is truly gay. I think the short story, the screenplay and the film are all in agreement with that. Ennis was homophobic, period. Even after their four year reunion, he describes his intensity of his feelings for Jack as "this thing".  He still cannot face his authentic self, IMO.
--- End quote ---

Can't add (or debate) anything here.  I agree with all you've said.

dly64:

--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on June 26, 2006, 09:27:24 am ---This is not a contradiction, it's just her way of telling the story. I'll even allow that you may be right that it wasn't wise for her to put this passage in the narrative where she put it, in the context of Jack's reminisence, though that was her decision to make. She has told us already, in the motel scene, that Ennis has figured out that he shouldn't have let Jack out of his sights (which I have always interpreted as meaning that Story Ennis, in contradistinction to Movie Ennis, is perfectly aware by 1967 that Jack Twist is the love of his life), and prior to that Ennis and Jack have mutually come together in that desparate kiss on the apartment landing. It is not a contradiction to show that at some point early in their relationship Ennis wasn't able to embrace Jack face-to-face. It just shows that Ennis has changed--remarkbly, I'd say, considering his homophobic background.
--- End quote ---

I think the flashback was appropriately placed. Jack was Ennis' love of his life, that is a fact. What I still think this passage  symbolizes ....  even though Ennis could not admit to himself that Jack was his one-in-a-lifetime love ...  is the  love and intimacy between Jack and Ennis which was embraced at that moment. Not in a physical way, but in a loving, caring way. Now, that may seem like I am contradicting myself, but I'm not. There is a difference between feeling or knowing something versus acknowledging it.

Here is a quote from Ang Lee ...

You've been quoted as saying the movie is about the impossibility of love?

Ang Lee: I think the gay factors, after a while, maybe half the movie, the circumstances are set. They can live together. Ennis has a choice to make it work. That's why Jack complains later in the movie. All they got is Brokeback? That's bullshit. They're both gays, but one chooses to be more adventurous. The other has to go through self denial and only accepts it when it's too late, when he missed him. That is true. Eventually we surpass the obstacles and it's really a search for that obscure object of love.

The whole interview can be read at:


http://www.movieweb.com/news/28/10128.php

I think that this quote fits in with what I am saying. Prove me wrong! I am really quite open to other points of view. :)

Jeff Wrangler:
Diane,

Thanks for sharing that quote from Ang Lee. That was new to me.

I don't keep the story with me here at work (I'd never get any work done if I did  ;) ), but I agree with you that the importance of the "dozy embrace" is really the intimacy--for goodness sake, Ennis is actually humming a lullaby!--and that also that there is a difference between knowing something and acknowledging it--or facing up to it.

Heck, I "knew" I was gay for years before I acknowledged it to myself. ...

dly64:

--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on June 26, 2006, 10:39:06 am ---Diane,

Thanks for sharing that quote from Ang Lee. That was new to me.

I don't keep the story with me here at work (I'd never get any work done if I did  ;) ), but I agree with you that the importance of the "dozy embrace" is really the intimacy--for goodness sake, Ennis is actually humming a lullaby!--and that also that there is a difference between knowing something and acknowledging it--or facing up to it.

Heck, I "knew" I was gay for years before I acknowledged it to myself. ...
--- End quote ---

I am naughty, too .... I am here at work and am not getting as much work done as I should (I don't carry my book with me, either.)

Anyway, Ang's quote definitely fits in with what I am saying. That, although Ennis loved Jack, he could not face it until Jack was gone. He didn't want to be gay and certainly did not see himself in that way. How completely tragic!!  :(

silkncense:
I agree w/ dly64.  I believe that Ennis denies his feelings are love in his own mind until it is too late.  Although the viewer sees the love & tenderness he occasionaly allows himself, Ennis continued to define his intense feelings as the result of sexual passion.  And I believe Jack knew that & expressed it in his eyes at the end of the lake scene.  

EDIT - Both Jeff & Diane were typing at the same time as I was. Hope it's not too repetitive!

A second edit/point - It is also why the dozy embrace is so important in Jack's mind...it was a moment "wrapped in a closeness that satisfie(d) some shared and sexless hunger..."

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