Author Topic: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll  (Read 3507998 times)

Offline Kazza

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 400
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7350 on: November 22, 2006, 06:25:20 pm »
Well obviously I have a twist free, innocent, angelic mind because I can't can't see where this is going.

Somebody help me...  :(

Karen

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7351 on: November 22, 2006, 06:35:13 pm »
hehehe... oh good, all is not lost!  At least one person has a surprise ahead!
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Lumière

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,283
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7352 on: November 22, 2006, 06:35:48 pm »
Well obviously I have a twist free, innocent, angelic mind because I can't can't see where this is going.

Somebody help me...  :(

Karen


Karen,
While Scott is busy playing with his cuisinart and solving the mystery of Dupree .. ;D,  I opt not to speculate .. lol, let's wait and see what really happens!  I like to be surprised .. don't you?   8)



Offline Kazza

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 400
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7353 on: November 22, 2006, 06:41:09 pm »

Karen,
While Scott is busy playing with his cuisinart and solving the mystery of Dupree .. ;D,  I opt not to speculate .. lol, let's wait and see what really happens!  I like to be surprised .. don't you?   8)


I wish I could opt not to speculate, I'm just too thick to figure out what's going on.  ;D

La la la...

I'm with you Lucise - I love surprises.

Karen

Offline NavyVet

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 317
  • Harm/Tony - My fav rare pair
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7354 on: November 22, 2006, 09:27:39 pm »
Woo-hooo!

Loved these last 2 chapters.  So ...

Nick is a Navy man - - be still my heart!

I never made it out to the West Coast, but a good friend of ours has been stationed in Seattle.  I've heard it's a nice area.


Oh, and for anyone who might be wondering, Wentworth Miller is the actor starring in the US TV series "Prison Break" on Mondays on the Fox network.  He plays a character named Michael who has tattoos covering nearly his entire body.  He must spend hours in makeup!    It's a very intense and dark show.  Just starting to see a bit of fanfic from it. 
Sorry if I rambled.    :D

 
NavyVet
"Brokeback Mountain:  Where slash is canon!"

Offline magicmountain

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,677
  • Fire from heaven
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7355 on: November 23, 2006, 12:54:42 am »
Recent developments at the Red Stallion require the following addition to the Lexicon:

To Sampsonise : to carry out a lightning-fast pickup of a gay sexual virgin, while at the same time promising: "We'll take it slow".

Earlier events between E & E suggested:

Coyotition: An intimate sexual manouevre indulged in exclusively by horse trainers and deputy sherrifs, wherein one imitates a coyote biting and the other pretends to be a Pillsbury doughboy.



Richard you have found your calling!
Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all. - Alexander the Great

Offline magicmountain

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,677
  • Fire from heaven
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7356 on: November 23, 2006, 02:41:37 am »
Ennis coming out vs the "Ennis we love"

It is interesting to note that some fans object that Ennis working in a gay bar, enjoying the use of sex toys and talking about his sex life with other men is too far from “the Ennis we all love”. Others have stated that the change in him is implausible. But is the change in Ennis so implausible? Much has been written about coming out. One  website offering gay and lesbian resources maps this process providing what its author calls a "good basic model" for this process.

http://www.psychpage.com/learning/library/gay/comeout.html

How far does Ennis conform with this model which maps the process of coming out?

1. Self-Recognition as Gay

More than just an awareness of attraction to members of the same sex, it involves confusion, some attempt at denial and repression of feelings, anxiety, trying to "pass," counseling, and often religious commitment to "overcome" sexuality. Eventually, acknowledgment and acceptance of one's sexual orientation develops. Gay and lesbian people may be fairly closeted at this point. However, most seek out information about being gay.

Ennis of BBM conforms to this profile. He is confused and anxious after his experiences with Jack on the mountain and tries to pass by marrying and dating Cassie. He does not pursue a religious commitment with “the fire and brimstone crowd” and I doubt counselling was available in Riverton on this issue in 1984. After Jack’s death Ennis journeys to Laramie for the very purpose of “seeking out more information” about homosexuality. After all his same sex attraction to Jack destroyed his marriage, made him miserable for 20 years and led to a devastating tragedy. It cost him Jack and made him fearful for most of his life. Why on earth would he not feel impelled to go looking for answers.“Looking for Answers” is in fact the title of the first section of the Laramie Saga which as we know carries on Ennis’ story after BBM.

2. Disclosure to Others

Sharing one's sexual orientation with a close friend or family member is the first step in this stage. Rejection may cause a return to the Self-Recognition stage, but positive acceptance can lead to better feelings of self-esteem. Usually disclosure is a slow process.

We see at the end of BBM how Ennis acknowledges his sexuality together with his love for Jack. He comes out to Jack’s parents and to a lesser extent to Lureen. Disclosure was sure a slow process with Ennis. It took 20 years and the death of his lover to start him on the process of self recognition and coming out however tentatively to begin with.

3. Socialization with Other Gays

Socializing with other gays provides the experience that the person is not alone in the world, and there are other people like him or her.

Ennis seeks out other gay people to explore what it means to be a homosexual man – after all his whole life hitherto has revolved around this conundrum. Could Ennis overcome his fear to enter a gay bar in Laramie? After the shock of Jack’s death the worst he imagined has come to pass. Very often when life deals you a blow like this a person loses their fear thinking “what can be worse than this?” He has limited options in his search for answers. He sees an ad for the bar and follows the only lead he had found.

4. Positive Self-Identification

This stage entails feeling good about oneself, seeking out positive relationships with other gays, and feeling satisfied and fulfilled.

After meeting Ellery, a positive role model for a reasonably well adjusted out gay man and seeing that other gay men in the Red Stallion men’s bar don’t have horns growing out of their heads (with the possible exception of Wayne!) Ennis gradually adjusts to his new self-identity and finds fulfilment in it. He also draws strength and confidence from Wes and Edna, Dupree and Ellery's other colleagues.

Part of his feeling fulfilled is his sexual exploration with Ellery who has a wider range of experiences than Ennis and is keen to experiment. If this exploration involves sex toys and other light bondage so what? Fans can certainly imagine him getting up to all sorts of interesting fun and games with Jack no problem at all!


5. Integration and Acceptance

Entails an openness and non-defensiveness about one's sexual orientation. One may be quietly open, not announcing their sexual orientation, but available for support to others nonetheless. Couples live a comfortable life together and generally seek out other couples. Openness is often mitigated by age. Older men may be less open in their lives, and may see no need to change.

Again Ennis conforms to this model. Ennis and Ellery are quietly open and live a comfortable life in a circle of accepting friends. However, as an older man with the history he has had, Ennis is still much less open than most others and does not want to change to the extent that he loudly announces it to the world. Ennis is eventually able to offer some support to Dupree who he befriends and who is also struggling with sexuality. He also exchanges information with Dupree on sexual matters as part of this informal support based on a trusting friendship. On one occasion, when he has become more confident in his identity and more comfortable with the bar personnel, he asks Lauren a question pertaining to sex to see if what he is doing in within normal bounds of gay activity. Again this is in pursuit of "looking for more information".

The Ennis “we all love”

Who is this Ennis? Ennis came alive with Jack for sure and that is the Ennis we love most! But the “Ennis we love” was also a sad, conflicted, ungiving and lonely man. A solitary, perpetually fearful man. A homophobe in denial. A loving yet repressed man. A passionate, loyal man who tries to do the right thing but failed everyone around him. Is that who we want to hold on to as well?

It may not be realised by some that Ennis was already on the path of change before the end of BBM when Jack died. The Ennis who greeted Jack with that passionate kiss is not the Ennis of the mountain. Post-divorce Ennis is not the man who married Alma. The man playing with his apple pie is not the man who dated Cassie. Nor is the Ennis who pressed the shirts to his lips the one who threatened to kill Jack by the lake. Ennis himself tried to stop time and change by attempting to relive that magic time spent with Jack on BBM every time they met up. Like many people want to hold on to "Ennis with Jack", he wanted to hold on to the comfort of the familiar and to repeat it over and over. But Jack changed, times changed and then he had to change too.

The Ennis we love in the film is an evolving individual. To keep “the Ennis we love” we either have to keep hold of the “Jack we love” or keep Ennis frozen in time in that trailer or similar environment. Why would he stop developing and changing just at that point? The alternative is to explore how he might expand his horizons driven by the factors discussed above? As the model demonstrates, the pathway Ennis takes in The Laramie Saga conforms in a general sense with a well beaten path. It was a lonelier path to be sure in that time and place without all the counselling and other supports now available in urban areas. Nevertheless there is recogniseable pattern to Ennis’ actions and his evolution both as a man and as a gay man in this story.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 06:56:42 am by magicmountain »
Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all. - Alexander the Great

Offline Lumière

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,283
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7357 on: November 23, 2006, 03:56:48 am »
Ennis coming out vs the "Ennis we love"


Seriously Jo, what would we do without you and your ever insightful words?
Thanks for sharing that essay here with us, you make very excellent points.

Quote
The Ennis we love in the film is an evolving individual. To keep “the Ennis we love” we either have to keep hold of the “Jack we love” or keep Ennis frozen in time in that trailer or similar environment. Why would he stop developing and changing just at that point?

And that is the million dollar question!

Thanks Jo!   ;)

~M


Offline RonitR

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7358 on: November 23, 2006, 04:07:25 am »
SPOILER




OMG. OMG. OMG.

Just read the last two chapters.... OMG!!!

Louise, you vixen you !!!


OMG.


I allways love, love , LOVE the Red-Stallion chapters, but these latest are ...OMG !!

Poor Jeeves, though.... and you really don't have to work hard to get Lance going, do you ??
Of course, I'm not too sure Dupree approved of Jeeves' choice, so who knows...


Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #7359 on: November 23, 2006, 06:16:17 am »
Oh wow... just wow.  Jo - you are a gentlewoman and a scholar.  Thank you for that in-depth analysis.  I read it with fascination.

Interestingly enough, I did not do this research prior to writing the story.  However - I did model Ennis's relationship with Ennis on a real-world model, which could explain why I did manage to follow it.  I have also had some very good insights and advisement from a number of gay men about their relationships and their coming-out, with respect to Ennis, Ellery, and Dupree in particular.  In any case, the essay you wrote is EXTREMELY validating.

It does speak volumes that the remaining loud and vocal critics are those who have distorted or misread various plot points and making cliches from them, in order to make the point that I did not write about "The Ennis we love."

Has anyone here fallen in love overnight?  *raises hand*  I did, and the man whose biography I used as a partial model in "Taking Chances" did as well, even in the midst of grieving the tragic death of his childhood sweetheart.  Those people who say that this could not be "the Ennis we love" because he fell in love overnight, and because he changed and grew, and came out - invalidates all of those (all of us) who have had these experiences, and whose love blossomed and bore fruit.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”