Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
David In Indy:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on October 16, 2008, 01:49:19 am ---Ooh, that's an interesting statement, David, about Lureen having a grudge against Ennis. That actually raises an entirely different conversation. Wow... We listen to her in the blue parka conversation, and then we hear her at the end, after Jack's death. It's interesting that you think Lureen was clever/smart/perceptive enough to know that Ennis was interfering/begrudging her the idyllic life she was looking for in her dreams. I just really don't believe that Lureen ever picked up on the clues of Jack's other life.
--- End quote ---
Lureen's veiled hostility towards Ennis during their phone conversation tipped me off, but I could be wrong Mandy. Also she gently chastised Jack for going to Wyoming on one of his "fishing trips". I had a weird feeling about that as well. I think she knew what was going on. But like I said, I could be wrong. :)
Katie77:
I think Laureen would have had her suspicions about Jack. Her comment about Jack keeping his friends names in his head, indicated that maybe Jack had other male friends whom she had not met. I think the fact that Jack had said Brokeback was his favourite place, and then Ennis telling her that he and Jack had worked up there together years ago, probably told Laureen, that this one, Ennis, was obviously the one who Jack felt the closest to.
Jack had told Ennis that their sex life was practically non existent, so obviously that either waned over the years, or there was just no sexual feeling between the two of them. Most wives would get suspicious if their husband was no interested in sex with her, first off she would think of another woman, but if Jack had male friends only, that she had not met, sooner or later the penny would probbly drop, and once Laureen had suspicions that there were other men on the scene, she would be picking up on things a lot easier.
I think the way Laureen described the tyre blow out incident, it was said in a way, like, "I knew one day, something like this would happen"....and the way she recited the incident over the phone, was like a written script that she had worked out to tell people, whether they believed it or not, that was the story, and she was sticking to it.
It was her and her sons right to have half the ashes, so I dont think Ennis would ever have asked for them from her. I think he would have had more respect for her than to ask her that. I dont think he would have asked the Twists, if it had not been for Jacks request, and he seemed to accept OMT saying that Jack would be buried in the family plot. They were Jack's family after all and had that right.
Ennis was not the only one who lost someone, or who was mourning him....the Twists lost a son, Laureen lost a husband, and more importantly, Bobby lost a father.
If anything, the whole situation shows, that although the relationship Ennis and Jack had, was probably the most intimate and loving relationship out of all Jack's other relationships with his family...in the end, Ennis had no say in what happened to his lover, after he was gone.
I wonder if that was a comparison, to what can happen in other gay relationships that we have heard about, when one of them dies, the partner has no legal right to the same things, he would have, if they were legally married.
Luvlylittlewing:
--- Quote from: DavidInIndy on October 16, 2008, 01:53:17 am ---Lureen's veiled hostility towards Ennis during their phone conversation tipped me off, but I could be wrong Mandy. Also she gently chastised Jack for going to Wyoming on one of his "fishing trips". I had a weird feeling about that as well. I think she knew what was going on. But like I said, I could be wrong. :)
--- End quote ---
David, first I'll say that I voted no, Ennis would not have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes. I find your feeling about Lureen interesting, but I don't agree. I don't think Ennis was her favorite person, especially after she discovered what he meant to Jack, but I don't think she held a grudge against him. If she did hold a grudge, I don't think she would have asked him to go and carry out Jack's wishes. She would have withheld information about Jack's ashes, his final wish, the fact that Brokeback was his favorite place.
Katie77:
--- Quote from: Littlewing on October 17, 2008, 09:58:31 pm ---David, first I'll say that I voted no, Ennis would not have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes. I find your feeling about Lureen interesting, but I don't agree. I don't think Ennis was her favorite person, especially after she discovered what he meant to Jack, but I don't think she held a grudge against him. If she did hold a grudge, I don't think she would have asked him to go and carry out Jack's wishes. She would have withheld information about Jack's ashes, his final wish, the fact that Brokeback was his favorite place.
--- End quote ---
She mentioned the fact about Jack's wishes and Brokeback Mountain, before Ennis told her that they had herded sheep there back in 1963.....it was after that, that her demeanour seemed to change.
If nothing else, she would have then realized that a place he spent with Ennis, some 20yrs ago, was his favourite place, in some ways telling her, that anything she had with him in between, was not so important or precious to him.....
I dont think she really had a grudge, but in those few sentences, she found out a lot about Jack, and maybe it answered all those questions of why he used to drive to Wyoming to go "fishing" with him.......
David In Indy:
--- Quote from: Katie77 on October 16, 2008, 06:18:03 am ---I think Laureen would have had her suspicions about Jack. Her comment about Jack keeping his friends names in his head, indicated that maybe Jack had other male friends whom she had not met. I think the fact that Jack had said Brokeback was his favourite place, and then Ennis telling her that he and Jack had worked up there together years ago, probably told Laureen, that this one, Ennis, was obviously the one who Jack felt the closest to.
Jack had told Ennis that their sex life was practically non existent, so obviously that either waned over the years, or there was just no sexual feeling between the two of them. Most wives would get suspicious if their husband was no interested in sex with her, first off she would think of another woman, but if Jack had male friends only, that she had not met, sooner or later the penny would probbly drop, and once Laureen had suspicions that there were other men on the scene, she would be picking up on things a lot easier.
I think the way Laureen described the tyre blow out incident, it was said in a way, like, "I knew one day, something like this would happen"....and the way she recited the incident over the phone, was like a written script that she had worked out to tell people, whether they believed it or not, that was the story, and she was sticking to it.
It was her and her sons right to have half the ashes, so I dont think Ennis would ever have asked for them from her. I think he would have had more respect for her than to ask her that. I dont think he would have asked the Twists, if it had not been for Jacks request, and he seemed to accept OMT saying that Jack would be buried in the family plot. They were Jack's family after all and had that right.
Ennis was not the only one who lost someone, or who was mourning him....the Twists lost a son, Laureen lost a husband, and more importantly, Bobby lost a father.
If anything, the whole situation shows, that although the relationship Ennis and Jack had, was probably the most intimate and loving relationship out of all Jack's other relationships with his family...in the end, Ennis had no say in what happened to his lover, after he was gone.
I wonder if that was a comparison, to what can happen in other gay relationships that we have heard about, when one of them dies, the partner has no legal right to the same things, he would have, if they were legally married.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Littlewing on October 17, 2008, 09:58:31 pm ---David, first I'll say that I voted no, Ennis would not have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes. I find your feeling about Lureen interesting, but I don't agree. I don't think Ennis was her favorite person, especially after she discovered what he meant to Jack, but I don't think she held a grudge against him. If she did hold a grudge, I don't think she would have asked him to go and carry out Jack's wishes. She would have withheld information about Jack's ashes, his final wish, the fact that Brokeback was his favorite place.
--- End quote ---
Hi Marie and Sue!!
First of all, I should probably point out that when I said Ennis would ask for Jack's ashes, I didn't mean all of them. I just meant the ashes would be divided, Ennis would carry part of them off to Brokeback and Lureen would re-inter the other half.
As far as Lureen's grudge towards Ennis - that is just something I can't seem to get past. I've always felt she held a grudge towards him. She was angry at Jack and jealous of Ennis. Deep and veiled perhaps, but I believe it was there. I suppose each of us get different messages from the story and the movie, and that's what makes it so personal to each of us. No two people interpret it in the exact same way. :)
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