Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Jack's and Ennis' gaydar
serious crayons:
We've talked about how Jack seems to recognize and accept his sexuality right from the beginning of the movie. And we've debated various ideas about when Ennis recognizes his own, and when he accepts it -- if ever.
But when did Jack begin to think Ennis might be gay, and vise versa?
Did Jack have reason to believe in advance that Ennis would be receptive when he made his move in the tent? Obviously he knew Ennis liked him, but did he have a clue that Ennis liked him that way?
As for Ennis, did it occur to him to wonder about Jack's sexuality before the FNIT? When he jumps up in the tent, he looks surprised, but maybe not that surprised. Did he perhaps already register something subconsciously?
When Ennis tells Jack he ain't had the opportunity to sin, and Jack goes "Hmmmmm!" in response, as if to say, "Well, we'll have to do something about that!" were they openly flirting, or unconsciously flirting, or not flirting at all, or what?
gattaca:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on June 24, 2006, 04:24:18 pm ---We've talked about how Jack seems to recognize and accept his sexuality right from the beginning of the movie. And we've debated various ideas about when Ennis recognizes his own, and when he accepts it -- if ever.
But when did Jack begin to think Ennis might be gay, and vise versa?
Did Jack have reason to believe in advance that Ennis would be receptive when he made his move in the tent? Obviously he knew Ennis liked him, but did he have a clue that Ennis liked him that way?
As for Ennis, did it occur to him to wonder about Jack's sexuality before the FNIT? When he jumps up in the tent, he looks surprised, but maybe not that surprised. Did he perhaps already register something subconsciously?
When Ennis tells Jack he ain't had the opportunity to sin, and Jack goes "Hmmmmm!" in response, as if to say, "Well, we'll have to do something about that!" were they openly flirting, or unconsciously flirting, or not flirting at all, or what?
--- End quote ---
Interesting topic!
It's a puzzler for me, because my 'gaydar' is broken. Needs calibration or a new transistor or something. :D
I read somewhere that 78% of all human communication is NON-verbal. Language can be more of a hindrance than a conduit. I think both Jack and Ennis were seeking a more intimate bond with each other on some level. Jack's vision was probably more forthright and well-conceived than Ennis's.
I believe that no one is exclusively hetero or homosexual, but most of us have strong leanings one way or the other.
Social contraints in Wyoming in the early 60s would have tended to suppress any outward manifestations of one man's affections towards another, but such constraints would have been irrelevant up on the mountain.
I think it just took Ennis a little longer to read his own heart.
Brown Eyes:
Heya Katherine,
Thanks for starting the thread. I'm going to copy the link back to the Randall really is... thread back on CT here for cross-referencing purposes if people are interested http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=2767.45
I think the issue of gaydar/ moments of initial attraction all go back to the first enigmatic interactions in front of Aguirre's trailer. None of these interactions and glances can ever be pegged down for sure (especially since everything happens in silence). But, I remember old threads that used to point to this opening interaction as evidence that Ennis was attracted to Jack right away.
I'm guessing that Jack did notice that Ennis was looking at him in the parking lot. Even though they were careful not to make eye contact (and inside Aguirre's trailer... they look at each other in turns, not simultaneously) I'm sure Jack got the sense (out of the corner of his eye, or just from vibes) that Ennis was checking him out. Like the scene were Jack is (probably) checking out naked-Ennis through his peripheral vision, I'm guessing similar things might be happening in this opening sequence. I think his cute urge to pose himself against his truck for Ennis was part of this.
Back on the Randall really is... thread the discussion has turned to the question of double-readings of moments that suggest societal homophobia. [I'm paraphrasing some main points from that thread... so please bear with me for a sec...]The clear example of this is Jack's situation in the bar with Jimbo. Are the guys around the pool table alerted to Jack's come-on by Jimbo as he approaches them? Is this group of people around the pool table a potential menace to Jack? Or do we just see it that way... Are they just gossiping amongst themselves and not even paying any attention to Jack? Has society conditioned Jack/ us to actually almost feel a sense of homophobic danger here?
I'm bringing this up because the idea of societal conditioning, I think, plays in to the opening sequence of interaction between Jack and Ennis. We/ the audience (even if we're gay and/or know all about what this story is about) are so conditioned to looking at interactions between cowboys as almost anything other than flirting that we might simply miss all sorts of homosexual behavior/ vibes going on. What I mean here is that society might condition us/ characters like Jack and Ennis to perceive homophobia even in situations where it's not there... and similarly society might condition us to not notice/ dismiss visible gay behavior even when it's right in front of us. The idea of silencing or making gay people/ behavior invisible is one manifestation of the same homophobic society. So, no wonder we and Jack/ Ennis are confused about where everything stands and when the signs really are all in place that will allow Jack to grab Ennis's hand with confidence. If Ang Lee and these actors really are tuned into subtleties like this than they absolutely deserve every award they won.
But, back to Jack's gaydar... I think Jack probably has almost super-human gaydar. My point on the other thread was/is that he pegged Ennis of all people. And, he figured Randall out and really attracted Randall with a few bats of his eyelashes across the dinner table. Interestingly, Jack's most successful moments, capitalizing on his gaydar, happen in silence. Randall is attracted to Jack (and Jack notices this) in a situation when they cannot openly discuss the chemistry that's going back and forth between them. The attraction is established before the chat on the bench (in my opinion). And, Jack's greatest success in wooing a male lover is clearly Ennis... and again all the initial moments of attraction happen in silence. The one exception might be the "I ain't had the opportunity" chat (where Jack might actually be picking up on an overt verbal clue... but that's clearly opent to debate). And then the question becomes, was Jimbo really gay and just super closeted out of fear of the environment/ bartender?
Mikaela:
--- Quote ---was Jimbo really gay and just super closeted out of fear of the environment/ bartender?
--- End quote ---
That's my opinion. Jimbo's lines are all delivered with furtive glances towards the bartender; - as if he's playing a role as aloof straight guy and wants to be absolutely sure the bartender gets his performance. I think Jack's gaydar worked prefectly where Jimbo was concerned. Which adds another tiny sliver to the tragedy of the film - Jimbo being another "victim" of their time and place.
--- Quote ---The one exception might be the "I ain't had the opportunity" chat (where Jack might be actually picking up on an overt verbal clue... but that's clearly opent to debate.
--- End quote ---
In the intermediate script draft revised by J. Schamus that has been referenced a couple of places, it appears Ennis's line actually is: You may be a sinner, but Alma's not yet given me the opportunity... (or something very similar to that). At any rate it clearly indicated that Ennis's line was intended to be understood by Jack and us as a comment on sexuality. It's understandable that they'd later remove the reference to Alma as he's flirting with a man there. Plus, it increases that ever-present ambiguity. :)
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on June 24, 2006, 05:46:48 pm ---Jimbo's lines are all delivered with furtive glances towards the bartender; - as if he's playing a role as aloof straight guy and wants to be absolutely sure the bartender gets his performance.
--- End quote ---
Oh, RIGHT! I didn't think about this before, but now that you mention it, sure.
--- Quote ---In the intermediate script draft revised by J. Schamus that has been referenced a couple of places, it appears Ennis's line actually is: You may be a sinner, but Alma's not yet given me the opportunity... (or something very similar to that).
--- End quote ---
Wow, I'm sure glad they changed that! Not only for the reasons you mention, but because I love the fact that Alma's name only comes up twice, and both times it's given no further comment. Particularly conspicuously so the first time, when Ennis mentions his impending nuptuals and Jack ignores it and goes back to complaining about Aguirre. When two people are attracted to each other and one is involved with someone else, it's natural for both to avoid mentioning the someone else.
As someone pointed out on a thread long ago, that's another thing that must have set off a little beep on both their gaydars -- the fact that neither ever says much about women or sex at all, pretty unusual for 19-year-old guys.
--- Quote from: atz75 on June 24, 2006, 05:30:17 pm --- Is this group of people around the pool table a potential menace to Jack? Or do we just see it that way... Are they just gossiping amongst themselves and not even paying any attention to Jack? Has society conditioned Jack/ us to actually almost feel a sense of homophobic danger here?
--- End quote ---
Yes, and here's another crippling effect of societal homophobia -- the pool players may or may not be talking about Jack, but for his own safety Jack has to assume they are and get the hell out of there.
--- Quote ---I think Jack probably has almost super-human gaydar. My point on the other thread was/is that he pegged Ennis of all people. And, he figured Randall out and really attracted Randall with a few bats of his eyelashes across the dinner table.
--- End quote ---
Maybe so! I guess I had all along assumed just the opposite -- that in that place and time all Jack could do was give it a shot every now and then and hope the other guy was also gay and therefore receptive. Between Ennis and Jimbo, his score was 1 and 1. A possible argument for this is that Jack may have had an exaggerated idea of what proportion of men actually WERE gay -- he surely hadn't read Alfred Kinsey's books or anything and, living out on that isolated ranch, he'd be familiar only with his own feelings. Maybe, unlike Ennis, he hadn't even heard much talk about homosexuality, growing up. Clearly Jack's dad isn't the world's most open-minded guy, but it may not have been the big issue for him that it was for Ennis' dad.
But I like your explanation better, Amanda; it makes more sense. For that matter, maybe gay people's gaydar in general was more superhuman back then, our of necessity -- they had to rely on really subtle cues because it had to be so much on the QT. And though I think Randall was doing most of the instigating at the dance, he in turn must have picked up cues from Jack -- and maybe Jack was deliberately sending them.
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